Finally saw this, had some issues with the plot
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harkness78 — 11 years ago(August 11, 2014 09:14 PM)
Both dudes above me are wrong, the hallucination sequence is great, really well done. The ending, with Schneider just KNOWING he is dead no matter what he does next, is incredibly classy and well executed.
I can understand minor quibbles over character motivation. Other than that, the film is a 99% masterpiece. Anyone who comes away from it for the first time not amazed is missing it. It is reprehensible for a person to see that movie and proceed right to a message board and talk beep about it.
"Nobody knows anybody, not that well" - Miller's Crossing -
MarkinTempe — 11 years ago(September 28, 2014 01:49 PM)
I think the OP is needlessly nitpicking a film that is open-ended and intentionally murky. There are many things in the periphery that are never shown i.e. the size, budget and logistical capabilities of the drilling firm and the bar scene. And I think when it comes to point one, he missed the beautiful irony of the main setting. Here there were these disparate individuals who had escaped from the peril of their crimes. Crimes which obviously would have landed them in prison for the rest of their natural lives. This jungle was chosen as a location by the director because it was like a "prison without walls". So in effect the main characters never "escaped" their punishments after all. A case could be made that this really is a prison film.
As for the fourth point, c'mon, that is really really nitpicking. It's in no way a stretch to imagine that an ex-investment banker is smart enough to rebuild an engine. Again, despite the background info given in the beginning of the movie, there is much we do not know about the characters. Maybe he once had some sort of automotive background experience in his youth and those old trucks after all are hardly complicated automobiles. He was an especially astute educated European man who had to have also had some street smarts to make it out and survive as long as he did in that sh*thole. -
tpupkin — 11 years ago(September 28, 2014 03:37 PM)
There's a difference between what is possible and what is plausible, and writers need to pay close attention to the latter. While it's possible that our fancy French business man is also a top-notch mechanic capable of the specific specialized rigging required in this unique situation, it's not very plausible.
Typically, a writer will solve this type of issue by planting a seed early in the script that gets paid off later, but even then it's a extremely convenient contrivance which stretches at the suspension of disbelief. -
vankor — 11 years ago(September 30, 2014 10:45 PM)
Most of these did not bug me, but my number one complaint is in agreement with #2. Why not just blow the worthless stuff, and buy some good dynamite!? Why keep it SO far away? Heck for the price of the gas for the helicopter, plus the 40,000 pesos (originally 20,000) why couldn't the boss just buy new dynamite. Weird.
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pipeoxide — 11 years ago(October 01, 2014 08:10 PM)
#4: I disagree that Manzon was "effete" in any way. Also, his "skills" in mechanics can be explained by the fact that he came from a blue-collar/working class backgroundremember in the fancy French restaurant, Manzon's wife tells her galpal that "Victor's father was a fisherman". So in reality, he's going back to his roots in some grotesque way.
[whitecat]
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez -
daftoizo — 11 years ago(January 19, 2015 02:47 PM)
I saw it for the first time today and i have to say sorcerer is over the top in the second half of the movie. The end of the movie happens too fast. And i don't believe in roy sheider character, i agree he is considered as a miscast.
Bruno Cremer was one of the finest french actor and in this movie his talent is not shown the way he deserves
the other character played by Amidou is even worst lol
the hallucination scene is a complete joke, ridiculous.
One other thing really, really was a problem for this movie : make up !!, it got me out of the movieclose-ups on the faces made the actors just look fake
well, it is a lot for this sorcerer movie and of course i think clouzot wages of fear is way waaaay better, there is not even a fight between the two of them. -
DonQuichotte — 11 years ago(January 19, 2015 05:01 PM)
I must say that I personally liked the second half better. But you have some valid points, why you hated it, and I want to try to answer to these points!
to 1.
I didn't pay too much attention at the beginning of the movie, but I thought, they wanted a passport, so they could stay in the country - not to flee. As for the little village/town/something: In my opinion they couldn't get a job there and were stuck.
to 2.
The nitro was old and poorly maintained. That's why I thought it was from an older drilling location. It felt abandoned.
to 3.
I never thought, the company was "big" in a global way. Just the local big thing. I didn't know that the helicopter came a long way and thought it was already close by. Even without nitro the flight might have been dangerous though, concerning the weather conditions.
It still remains a question, if you could easily acquire nitro in the country at that time. No mobile phones, no internet and some hints through the movie that the country is in chaos.
to 4.
It didn't look like many locals are actually capable of driving at all. Also you can see that the skills are different between the main characters, but you are right though, that their overall skill is strangely impressive. When they start the journey however, the fear of exploding might have forced them to best their best.
to 5.
I actually didn't notice too much strange behaviour and character turns. The scene with the Mexican you described perfectly displayed the fear in him.
to 6.
A matter of taste. I didn't think it was poorly done, but I admit that it is some sort of an oddity.
to 7.
That one was annoying. However keep in mind, that they couldn't have cleared the way without additional nitro. It was a big let down, that 1 crate was enough in the end.
to 8.
Besides all their mechanic/driving skills they simply don't seem to be experts for explosives
They just don't know how much the crates can take. The drunken-like delirious staggering was the first time, somebody handled a crate with less care. It shows how frightfull everybody was before.
to 9.
My take on the ending: I can't find the quote, but Friedkin somewhere said that the name "sorcerer" derives from the evil wizard that represents fate. He also said that "fate" and the things you cannot control (like birth and death) are something he is devoted to. This is somewhat expressed in the last scenes.
It could be over at any time and you don't have control over it. When he drinks the whiskey he is reminded of that. He is so terribly afraid that his life could end in a splitsecond (which definatly is a sideeffect from the constant fear of exploding) and he wants to make the best of the very seconds by dancing with even the ugly cleaning lady. But when he finally calms down, gets distracted and his fear vanishes, the assassins arrive. The fear had kept him alive so far. -
Mat-37 — 11 years ago(January 19, 2015 10:18 PM)
Just one thing about point #4 (i think): the French banker is no pussy; it is hinted during the exposition part that he's a tough guy when he tells his right-arm man: "We could both go to prison! You wouldn't survive there, I would, but not you."
- A point in every direction is the same as no point at all.
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doodleboy — 10 years ago(December 11, 2015 08:47 AM)
i thought he was saying to the guy, "Your father would let me go to prison, but not you." Meaning the partner was the heir/blood relative of the business owner, and Serrano was just married in (probably from a poor background).
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independent-tek — 11 years ago(January 21, 2015 04:50 PM)
First let me say I am glad I do not go to the movies with you. Talk about sucking the life out of what is supposed to be an entertaining experience. I saw this movie in a theater when it first came out and searched diligently for a video tape copy every year until I finally got one in 1990 or 1991. I have the DVD and several digital copies now and watch this movie 2 or 3 times a year. I often watch this movie back to back with Le Salaire de la peur.
Most of your criticisms fall into the category "I do not have any imagination". Movies do not have to literally explain everything. You are supposed to be able to add something of your own, making the film a personal experience.
Questions should come to mind as you watch the movie such as:
Could I ever be so desperate, so afraid, that I could do something like this?
Have I ever felt so alone that suicide was an alternative?
Have I ever been in a place so foreign, so alien, surrounded by people but disconnected from reality?
This film combines so many elements, so perfectly that I feel all those emotions and even physical effects of those emotions every time I watch it.
The cinematography is stunning. The soundtrack augments and builds and builds to an almost hypnotic point.
The locations push the feeling of isolation and reinforce the theme of one man fighting for a chance at another day, albeit another day in hell.
I could go over your "issues" with this film, but I know that my explanations will never give you an imagination. -
Garvante — 11 years ago(February 22, 2015 05:40 AM)
I can offer some insight for issue #2.
Older german home releases are differently cut, missing 40 minutes of material from the international version, but having added 15 minutes of new material. In this version, it is shown that the regular on-sight nitro storage has been emptied by the same terrorists who blew up the site, which is the reason for them having to go back to an older abandoned dig site and look for nitro there. -
doodleboy — 10 years ago(December 11, 2015 08:45 AM)
- I think once they got there they realized it was hell on earth, and they'd at least like to have the money, if not the escape to somewhere else. Somewhere else with $10k-$40k is better than slaving away with corrupt cops hounding you (not to mention the legit passports)
- yeah, i didn't get this either. Why can't they get fresh dynamite shipped in? I mean, i don't think Fedex (or whatever) overnighted HazMat material to remote locations back in the '70s, but surely one of those chopper pilots could fly to Manila and get some, right?
- yes, i agree. I think this scene could have been omitted, and the metaphor of "this is purgatory/hell" is made a little more plain.
- The French guy was not born into money. He married the rich daughter, and pissed away the fortune thru malfeasance. Hence his reliance on his partner (brother in law)'s relationship with the father. People back then knew more about the cars they drove - especially bus drivers and laborers. If you broke down, you didn't have cellphone for AAA service. You also might've worked in a motor pool in the army or something.
- People overcome their fear after a moment or two, and remember why they're doing it all in the first place.
- Sure. He's exhausted and whatnot, right? Your mind wanders.
- Well, but what if something when wrong with the workers at the site once they got the crate? If you need a second attempt, you'll need a second crate. You can't wait for another risky round-trip to bring you another crate
- True, but as long as he doesn't fall, there shouldn't be any hard jarring motion to set it off. We saw enough "close calls" in the truck that he knows he can walk with it.
- I think this was a tribute to the original movie, where the girl was younger & the romantic interest. Also, in the beginning, Schieder is looking longingly at the girl in the Coke ad - not at her, but at the Coke she's drinking. The French guy made it apparent he'd had a tryst with the cleaning lady, and she came out to say goodbye to him. When the bossman hands off French's personal letter, Schieder has (IMO) a goodbye dance with the girl in honor of French's memory. Or maybe Schieder just wants to feel like a person again, having come so close to death.
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DoomMarineid — 10 years ago(March 12, 2016 05:58 PM)
(late reply, no beep
#4: Pre-Internet, boys were raised to be men. Thing like changing fluids, tires, how to handle wrenches, hammers, axes, and more were a common part of growing up. Many girls as well were taught by their fathers how to change oil and spin a wrench before they were allowed to drive the family car. It would be expected for men of the age shown in the film to be capable of all these things, even the French man whose father was a fisherman after all and would have hard a rough life growing up. Don't forget, these vehicles were not modern computer controlled cars with electronically controlled ignitions, these were decades old trucks held together with bolts and welded metal. The ability to gap a plug and adjust a carburetor would have been standard knowledge of any real man. Have you ever even looked under the hood of your own car? If not, you are not a real man.
#7: There was no guarantee that each crate would be usable. They only tested one of them, and even then it was uncertain. They would have brought all the crates in case one of them didn't work. -
dgcasey — 9 years ago(June 11, 2016 12:07 AM)
Have you ever even looked under the hood of your own car? If not, you are not a real man.
I have and I long for the days of my '66 Mustang with 287 engine in it. I could do a tune-up on that car in less than twenty minutes and that was when I was 16-18 years old. Got really good as changing the alternator on that thing and could do it in ten minutes or less, sitting in the parking lot of the Checker Auto store. Rebuilding the carburetors was a fun, hour long task and adjusting the rocker arm clearance was like the workings of a heart surgeon.
Nowadays, most guys couldn't change their oil if their lives depended on it. Change a flat? What, are you kidding me? They will be on their cell phones, either calling their dads to come save them or they will be calling the AAA help line. -
