did anyone get the criterion disc?
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Dressed to Kill
mulholland_empire — 10 years ago(September 11, 2015 03:43 AM)
and can you tell me if it is worth getting if i have the mgm bluray already. Is the sound fixed in the museum scene and is the picture an improvement.
thanks in advance! -
swr2777-1 — 10 years ago(September 11, 2015 08:11 AM)
Hi, Mulholland.
Others may disagree on this, so take it with a grain of salt.
The Criterion disc looks terrific. Now, many are complaining about the greenish tint and brightnessbut I think it's the cleanest, clearest, freshest it's ever looked.
The new extras are nice, too. Not exceptional, but certainly worthy.
My big grievance is that the elevator scene has a pretty glaring audio error. During the parallel editing sequence where we cut back to
Angie Dickinson being slashed in the elevator
while Nancy Allen is talking to her john, the audio in that sequence is a hodgepodge of audio from both the R-rated and unrated versions historically. When cutting up to
the close-up of the lighted numbers being spattered with blood,
we essentially hear the R-rated cut (which begins very abruptly in the middle of a bar of music), and then cut back to the audio of the unrated cut when
Angie is pushed up against the wall and the razor held to her face.
The seam between the R-rated audio and the unrated audio is also very obvious in that a bar of music is looped a second time. So, when comparing to the original unabridged mono audio on other unrated releases, you're missing a few beats of sound/music via that jarring jump at the beginning of that montage, and then hearing another few beats repeated again later in the sequence. Not the end of the world to some, and many are saying they have no problem with it or barely noticed it. But to those who know this film very well and/or who have studied that sequence, it's definitely going to be noticeable.
After conferring with others on another forum, this sound error has appeared on alternate audio tracks of other releases, but is absolutely not how the original unrated mono cut sounded. The problem here is that the Criterion release only offers one soundtrackthe mono soundtrack with this audio error included. Again, they didn't create the error, as it clearly came from existing elements. But they also didn't catch it either. And however beautifully presented the release is, visually and audibly, it's still frustrating to have this small but profound audio error occur in the film's arguably most iconic sequence. And on this release, being the only audio track on it, that's the only way to listen to itwith the error.
Again, much to love and appreciate about the Criterion. I personally think it looks wonderful, and the otherwise mono soundtrack is also cleaned up and mixed well. Just go into it knowing that that audio error in the elevator scene is also there - and really sticks out like a sore thumb - and could be a deal breaker. Given that this release was already recalled once, I don't think that Criterion is going to recall it a second time. -
swr2777-1 — 10 years ago(September 11, 2015 03:52 PM)
Oh, sure. Certainly. Even despite that one (frustrating) variable, there's still a lot to love about this release. If you're a fan of this film, you're still very likely to be glad you've gotten it. Feel free to share your thoughts here when you've picked it up!
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mulholland_empire — 10 years ago(September 12, 2015 06:06 AM)
i actually went and picked it up yesterday afternoon. i'm very pleased with my choice, it is the definitive version of dressed to kill even though there's the music error in the elevator scene. its really not that big of a deal and i'm curious to know if it was intentional on de palmas part because there is no way he could of missed that. or if he did realize and diddnt think it mattered or liked the way its cut. but all that aside the picture and sound quality are a nice step up from the mgm and the new interviews on here are fabulous so far. ive yet to watch them all.
also idk if you are anywhere in the northeast U.S. but theres a horror convention every year around halloween time in new jersey called chillertheatre. they always have actors from dressed to kill there. i have my old dvd signed by angie dickinson and a nice still from the film signed by nancy allen. keith gordon was there before but i missed him, but im letting you know because nancy allen will be there again this year. im thinking of bringing the criterion if i end up going lol. -
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swr2777-1 — 10 years ago(September 13, 2015 12:31 AM)
Yes, manram24. As Mulholland said, and as I posted earlier on this thread, the Criterion edition is a good one. The picture quality is the best I've ever seen it look, and the overall presentation solidly good.
There's just an annoying audio error during the elevator scene in which a pivotal montage features a jagged audio edit that is ultimately compiled from audio from both the R-rated and unrated cuts. It's not the end of the world and doesn't have to completely spoil the idea of picking up the Criterion. Just frustrating for anyone who knows the film well enough to know how the unrated version is supposed to sound in that scene, and is maddening especially because it appears in such a critical scene. (As I've said elsewhere, it's like having the shower scene of PSYCHO play out with some awkward edit that's not usually there.) This misappropriated edit has appeared on some other releases here and there, but said releases often had another audio track available that perhaps didn't have this issuegiving you some option to deal with it or no. The Criterion release only has one available audio track, with this error inherent in itso, there's no avoiding it in this case. But again, you may not notice it, and perhaps more of an issue for hardcore purists (like me), or just those so familiar with the original unabridged audio that it just stands out.
If you can get the Criterion for substantially under the retail price, then you likely won't be disappointed all told. -
swr2777-1 — 10 years ago(September 13, 2015 12:21 AM)
Thank you for your thoughtful follow-up post. Glad you're happy with the purchase, regardless of the audio error. Certainly much to appreciate there.
And thanks for the info on Chiller. Yes, I love Chiller and went once in the early 2000's. Didn't realize the DTK actors tend to be on the roster more recently. Very good to know, and thanks again. Yes, I would imagine a copy of the Criterion disc with their signatures with be a worthy addition to one's collection for sure!
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mulholland_empire — 10 years ago(September 13, 2015 10:25 AM)
thank you!! i was skeptical at first but after talking with you i decided to give it a shot and it was well worth it. i had a great time watching the interviews, some very insightful stuff.
Chiller is great, and they have had tons of actors from the De Palma films through out the years. I met William Finley, Deborah Shelton, Margot Kidder etc.. I havnt went in about 3 or 4 years, I used to go all the time but recently it just seems to be getting smaller and more expensive.
But, i just made up my mind not to got this year because i was just able to get tickets to the nyff where there is a documentary on De Palma screening and a revival screening of blow out and De Palma will be there in person for both screenings. i was able to get tickets for both! so my dressed to kill criterion will be with me for that instead and hopefully i will be able to get it signed!! -
swr2777-1 — 10 years ago(September 15, 2015 06:20 AM)
It looks great. Can't wait to find out more in the coming months. I like the idea of a much younger filmmaker of a different generation and/or "film movement" taking such interest in DePalma and his techniques like that.
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mulholland_empire — 10 years ago(September 16, 2015 08:21 AM)
Its very interesting too me also. I've seen some of Baumbachs films and they are okay, but possibly the furthest thing from a De Palma film. I have respect for his style but I've just never really seen anything by him that has really blown me away. Hes obviously a huge a fan and i will admit, I sort of admired Frances Ha.
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!!!deleted!!! (63057267) — 10 years ago(October 08, 2015 01:25 PM)
I wasn't impressed with the Criterion disc. It's greenish, blown out to the point that the interesting use of shadow is almost non-existent, and it's vertically stretched to such an extent that everyone's head is noticeably elongated (you know something's wrong when Dennis Franz looks thin). The MGM disc is vastly superior and, as it turns out, a great deal cheaper. File the Criterion release alongside SCANNERS, another Blu Ray they botched horribly.
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swr2777-1 — 10 years ago(October 16, 2015 05:42 AM)
Cinesicko, I'm sorry I'm just seeing this. It sounds like you got a botched "first printing" Criterion. There was great controversy over this matter when the original pressing of the Criterion, as noted in advance by reviewers posting screencaps, revealed that the release had a squeezed picture in which everyone was tall and thin and out of proportion.
A second printing was done, which came out officially on Sept. 8th. That's what everyone should have received. But, despite the recall Criterion did of the first printing, some of those first printing discs still made their way into the marketplace. All you have to do is contact Criterion to get that disc replaced with one without the squeezed picture. -
!!!deleted!!! (63057267) — 10 years ago(October 16, 2015 08:31 AM)
Nope, it was the second pressing that I saw. I'm aware of the problems with the initial pressing (screen information that wasn't meant to be seen was present on the left side, ruining the balance of the shot compositions), but the re-release still has the slightly squeezed faces, is still very green-looking and still appears to be from faded elements (the negative, sadly). Despite the typically high price of Criterion's disc, the bargain-priced MGM release is vastly superior with a larger file size and higher bitrate than the Criterion! The only people who claim to like the Criterion better are those who dropped 30 to 40 bucks on it and are desperately trying to justify their purchase.
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patrick_bateman_90056 — 10 years ago(March 18, 2016 06:02 PM)
Out of curiosity, how was the "Scanners" set botched? The transfer looked pretty great when I saw it.
"[Redmayne] is so thirsty for awards and not in a fun way but in a sad, desperate way" - Twitter -
!!!deleted!!! (63057267) — 10 years ago(March 18, 2016 07:52 PM)
Cronenberg was given free reign with the transfer and went for the revisionist approach that's so trendy now. Basically, he tweaked the color scheme so aggressively that it looks flamboyantly green and orange. It also looks strangely flat (lacking image depth). The UK release is the one to get, hands down. A stunning presentation on all fronts. Criterion does drop the ball sometimes, as it turns out. I still love 'em, though.
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patrick_bateman_90056 — 10 years ago(March 19, 2016 07:17 PM)
Interesting. I get the idea of having the money and technology to make the movie look exactly as ideally planned, but I guess it shouldn't be utilized all the time. At least the look of "The Brood" is great.
"[Redmayne] is so thirsty for awards and not in a fun way but in a sad, desperate way" - Twitter