Tomcat vs Zero
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — The Final Countdown
mhansen-25806 — 9 years ago(May 07, 2016 07:40 PM)
Even though it was carefully staged for safety, the dogfight sequence was very interesting in contrasting the hopelessly outclassed but light and nimble Zero (well, Zero substitute) to the far superior, but much HEAVIER, less maneuverable Tomcat.
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra -
dubyahsrobotminion — 9 years ago(June 05, 2016 03:20 AM)
It could be argued that the F-14 is actually more maneuverable. The mismatch on film is exasperated by the fact that in order to even tail the Zero, the F-14 needs to stay near stall speed. The F-14 has a better roll-rate, turn rate, climb rate, better acceleration and a much better angle-of-attack in the dog fighting performance envelope.
You are taking a dump and they call GQ do you pinch it off or finish your business? -
mhansen-25806 — 9 years ago(June 05, 2016 07:06 PM)
With all due respect, I cannot believe a Tomcat could outmaneuver a Zero in close ACM. Are you suggesting a Tomcat can perform a tighter minimum radius turn than a Zero? Isn't that maneuver critical in ACM? (no sarcasm intended)
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra -
dubyahsrobotminion — 9 years ago(June 11, 2016 04:00 AM)
So than what is the Min Turn Radius,Sustained Turn Rate and Instantaneous Turn Rate at all speeds for the zero and what is the Min Turn Radius, STR/ITR at all speeds for the F-14?
I think you would be rather surprised at the minimum turn radius of the F-14. Try youtube. Unless the Zero is flying below the F-14s stall speed..
You are taking a dump and they call GQ do you pinch it off or finish your business? -
mhansen-25806 — 9 years ago(June 26, 2016 06:46 AM)
I can't believe you're objecting. If you accept the obvious scifi aspect of the movie, this sequence was the best part. IMHO, of course.
What did you think of the movie?
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra -
CGSailor — 9 years ago(July 02, 2016 10:39 PM)
This flick is for people that simply want to witness a mindless orgy of violence.
OK.. with that comment, it's obvious you're just trolling.
Since there is almost nothing in this film that qualifies and a "mindless orgy of violence".
I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water! -
kurt-2000 — 9 years ago(July 05, 2016 09:36 AM)
OK.. with that comment, it's obvious you're just trolling.
Cute comment sailor, but I know of very few people that have respect for this film. Sorry to burst your bubble, but this isn't a quality flick. It was designed to rally the audience to support a violent intercept attack. Pretty cheesy fantasy.
Launching all aircraft to destroy the Japs gives some guys a big hard on. And yes, a full carrier strike is very violent. The whole concept of this film is revenge feels good.
mindless orgy of violence for sure. -
flyer-50463 — 9 years ago(August 05, 2016 10:00 PM)
You do not know what you are talking about.
In war, all assets have to be used. The Japanese had over 300 airplanes. The Nimitz at most would carry only 80. So, yes, all airplanes had to be launched. Not in revenge but to assure victory. Some fighters would be used against the airplanes attacking Pearl. Others escorting the bombers going against the Imperial Japanese Navy. And don't forget the Nimitz as well. Some fighters would have to stay to protect the Nimitz.
A "full carrier strike is very violent." But we did not see a "full carrier strike." They were recalled before they struck! And not all airplanes were launched. Only two flights of each squadron. A squadron has about 12 airplanes. We did not see 12 Tomcats flying with 12 Intruders. And so on. We only saw 4 of each -
WearingABlackHat — 9 years ago(September 29, 2016 10:05 AM)
Stall speed of a Tomcat is MUCH less than 400.
When doing a Landing on a Carrier their approach speed is 125 Knots (~145 MPH) They should not have to much problem flying and maneuvering at 200 MPH.
But I believe that the Zeros WOULD be more maneuverable at that speed. Mostly because the Tomcat is too close to their stall speed that he cant maneuver to violently without risking a stall.
However the Zero would never be able to out run them and all the Tomcats would have to do is circle around and get behind them again. The Zeros dont have Radar and the Tomcats do.
And they would not need to use their weapons to splash them. A shockwave/wake from Supersonic flyby 200 feet from the zero would knock them right out of the sky. -
shoobe01-1 — 9 years ago(November 25, 2016 12:21 PM)
But it doesn't have to. Assuming just guns, not all things are equal.
The zeros had a low rate of fire 20 mm cannon. The Tomcats have an M61 rotary gun firing at a very high rate of fire, a much larger 20 mm cartridge. Oh, with an auto-leading gunsight.
The F14 can put effective gunfire into the Zero from much further away. No need to fight equal terms. -
CGSailor — 9 years ago(November 27, 2016 08:37 PM)
Tomcat's still flying at 130 knots.
the idea of a 400 knot stall speed is a joke.
whoever said that had no farking clue what they were talking about.
Maneuverability and speed are two very different things.
Just because a slow plane can turn in a very tight circle does not mean it is more maneuverable than a high speed aircraft not capable of flying that slow.
No. A zero cannot outmaneuver a Tomcat.
Try looking up the aeronautical term, "Corner Velocity" and how it relates to air combat maneuvering.
A slow plane can turn a smaller radius circle, but it does so very slowly
A faster plane would rate its nose around and get turned in the opposite direction much faster, but carve a much larger radius circle in the sky.
Corner velocity is defined as the slowest speed where the plane can still pull its maximum amount of Gs.
Below that speed, a plane cannot pull max Gs and loses maneuverability. It may make a small, tight turn, but does so slowly.
Above that speed, then max G is reached and the excess speed is wasted in a much wider turn than necessary taking longer to gwt around, thus losing maneuverability. It is making the fastest turn it can but the excess speed is creating a much wider turn.
Corner velocity thus is where a plane can make its fastest
AND
tightest turn.
Above or below that speed, it can do one or the other, not both.
So yeah a Zero may turn a smaller circle than a Tomcat is capable of. That does not mean a Zero can outmaneuver an aircraft.
To be out maneuvered, means that one plane gets in the kill position on the other.
By the time the zero can turn, the Tomcat is out of range and turning back in for its own kill shot.
I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water! -
CGSailor — 9 years ago(November 27, 2016 09:40 PM)
I try.
There's plenty I don't know.
But unlike a lot of posters, I generally only comment on what I know, and know when to defer to others who know more than me.
So it only seems like I'm a know-it-all.
I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!