Tomcat vs Zero
-
flyer-50463 — 9 years ago(August 05, 2016 10:00 PM)
You do not know what you are talking about.
In war, all assets have to be used. The Japanese had over 300 airplanes. The Nimitz at most would carry only 80. So, yes, all airplanes had to be launched. Not in revenge but to assure victory. Some fighters would be used against the airplanes attacking Pearl. Others escorting the bombers going against the Imperial Japanese Navy. And don't forget the Nimitz as well. Some fighters would have to stay to protect the Nimitz.
A "full carrier strike is very violent." But we did not see a "full carrier strike." They were recalled before they struck! And not all airplanes were launched. Only two flights of each squadron. A squadron has about 12 airplanes. We did not see 12 Tomcats flying with 12 Intruders. And so on. We only saw 4 of each -
WearingABlackHat — 9 years ago(September 29, 2016 10:05 AM)
Stall speed of a Tomcat is MUCH less than 400.
When doing a Landing on a Carrier their approach speed is 125 Knots (~145 MPH) They should not have to much problem flying and maneuvering at 200 MPH.
But I believe that the Zeros WOULD be more maneuverable at that speed. Mostly because the Tomcat is too close to their stall speed that he cant maneuver to violently without risking a stall.
However the Zero would never be able to out run them and all the Tomcats would have to do is circle around and get behind them again. The Zeros dont have Radar and the Tomcats do.
And they would not need to use their weapons to splash them. A shockwave/wake from Supersonic flyby 200 feet from the zero would knock them right out of the sky. -
shoobe01-1 — 9 years ago(November 25, 2016 12:21 PM)
But it doesn't have to. Assuming just guns, not all things are equal.
The zeros had a low rate of fire 20 mm cannon. The Tomcats have an M61 rotary gun firing at a very high rate of fire, a much larger 20 mm cartridge. Oh, with an auto-leading gunsight.
The F14 can put effective gunfire into the Zero from much further away. No need to fight equal terms. -
CGSailor — 9 years ago(November 27, 2016 08:37 PM)
Tomcat's still flying at 130 knots.
the idea of a 400 knot stall speed is a joke.
whoever said that had no farking clue what they were talking about.
Maneuverability and speed are two very different things.
Just because a slow plane can turn in a very tight circle does not mean it is more maneuverable than a high speed aircraft not capable of flying that slow.
No. A zero cannot outmaneuver a Tomcat.
Try looking up the aeronautical term, "Corner Velocity" and how it relates to air combat maneuvering.
A slow plane can turn a smaller radius circle, but it does so very slowly
A faster plane would rate its nose around and get turned in the opposite direction much faster, but carve a much larger radius circle in the sky.
Corner velocity is defined as the slowest speed where the plane can still pull its maximum amount of Gs.
Below that speed, a plane cannot pull max Gs and loses maneuverability. It may make a small, tight turn, but does so slowly.
Above that speed, then max G is reached and the excess speed is wasted in a much wider turn than necessary taking longer to gwt around, thus losing maneuverability. It is making the fastest turn it can but the excess speed is creating a much wider turn.
Corner velocity thus is where a plane can make its fastest
AND
tightest turn.
Above or below that speed, it can do one or the other, not both.
So yeah a Zero may turn a smaller circle than a Tomcat is capable of. That does not mean a Zero can outmaneuver an aircraft.
To be out maneuvered, means that one plane gets in the kill position on the other.
By the time the zero can turn, the Tomcat is out of range and turning back in for its own kill shot.
I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water! -
CGSailor — 9 years ago(November 27, 2016 09:40 PM)
I try.
There's plenty I don't know.
But unlike a lot of posters, I generally only comment on what I know, and know when to defer to others who know more than me.
So it only seems like I'm a know-it-all.
I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water! -
CGSailor — 9 years ago(November 27, 2016 10:02 PM)
Of course that link is accurate. That site is the work of Jonathon Parshall, who along with Anthony Tully, wrote Shattered Sword.
You should read his essay which is required reading at the Naval Academy, "Reflecting on Fuchida".
You can find it in PDF at the Naval War College itself.
I had just read that thread and have nothing to add to it but that losing all three carriers would not have altered the ultimate end of the war whith Japan losing, but very likely would have extended the war late into the 40's perhaps into the 50's with millions more dead.
I also tend not to comment when I have nothing new to add and agree with whats already been said, unless some naysayer comes along and says something contradictory to facts.
(one of the reasons it seems all my posts are negative atracks on a lot of people, I tend to comment most often against trolling idiots)
I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water! -
deadlypen — 9 years ago(November 28, 2016 12:52 AM)
In the late 1940's the RAF flew their latest jets against Spitfires (the jets were going to be deployed to Hong Kong and the tests were designed to identify the most effective jet fighter responses to Red Chinese piston engined aircraft). In every case in which the jets used their superior speed and acceleration instead of being drawn into slow turning contests (attempting to match the Spitfire's smaller turning circle), the jets completely bested the prop fighters.
-
Andthatismytwocents — 9 years ago(December 07, 2016 07:47 PM)
C.G. Sailor I know about as much of are dynamics then I do Macro economics
Your statements are OBVIOUSLY that of a competent naval officer
Was at Intrepid Museum in NYC recently the museum showed a film about dogfighting with Intrepid's Fighter Planes
In the sixties a Naval PROP plane took of and by chance battled a Soviet MIG
Touch and go for a bit In the end The Prop (A Cougar I believe BEAT the MIG
Gotta check My Jane's Aircraft book