Merlin vs Gandalf
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coxm-1 — 16 years ago(September 17, 2009 12:30 PM)
"gandalf would just win over merlin, but it would be close. personally, i think both would see through your ruse of pitting them afainst each other & then turn their combined sorcery against yourself (in the words on MP's king arthur, "RUN AWAY!!!") but even combined, merlin & gandalf would fall & fall hard to Pug (with or without Tomas; raymond feist's riftwar saga. read it before you die)"
Yeah, I think Gandalf would look at Merlin and say "Do you want to smoke some Hobbit weed?" Merlin would nod "yes" and pull out his pipe. The two would go sit someplace out of the way and blow smoke rings. In a little while, Merlin would say "I think Albus (Dumbledore) is coming by later this afternoon. We should save some weed for him." -
kobuster — 17 years ago(March 18, 2009 02:30 AM)
LotR is a story told from the viewpoint of hobbits and humans and elves and dwarves, but when all is said and done it is really about the battle between Gandalf and Sauron. Sauron's strengths were deception and treachery, which for example enabled him to cause Denethor to despair and Saruman to turn to evil. Gandalf's strength is partly his ability to inspire, but mostly his vast, supernatural level of wisdom. Gandalf was never outfoxed by Sauron, but Sauron was defeated by Gandalf's sneaky plan of sending hobbit ninjas into Mordor to destroy the ring.
So, basically, they would never fight. Gandalf would find a way to resolve their differences before it came to that.
(But Nicol Williamson's Merlin is so much the more entertaining movie character. I love this movie to death.) -
ferus1920 — 17 years ago(March 24, 2009 12:30 AM)
Merlin may be able to tap into the powers of the dragon, but Gandalf is a demigod, he has all of his own powers. In a no-holds-bared match up there is no chance of Merlin winning. I think Gandalf would still win though, even whith his powers being limited.
"Careful planning is the key to safe and swift travel." - Ulysses -
MoneyMagnet — 16 years ago(April 22, 2009 05:54 PM)
As wizards and as film characters, Merlin kicks Gandalf's ass.
Merlin is just a way more interesting wizard than Gandalf: funny, scary, isolated, lonely, world-weary, cynical, "not a man, not a god" and plus he lusts for Morgana.
Gandalf is just an old dude who fights Balrogs and hangs around with hobbits. Never tempted by anything. -
pol-edra — 16 years ago(August 17, 2009 12:27 AM)
That's really a very narrow way of looking at Tolkien's work. Gandalf's not 100% Merlin just because he reminds us of Merlin. Just because modern readers know very little about Odin (not that they know much about Merlin) doesn't mean they shouldn't look carefully into Tolkien's work and Tolkien's sources before claiming his characters and themes are simply this, or that.
What exactly makes you think Gandalf and Merlin are "the same person"? The fact that they're both old men with long beards and pointy hats? Pray point me one Arthurian source that describes Merlin as such. There isn't any! That "typical wizard" image does not come from Merlin, at least not in a straightforward way, and especially not at the time Tolkien was creating Middle Earth.
The fact that they both stand at the side of the hero/king along the quest? Except Merlin disappears from the story a long time before the Quest actually begins, never to come back. And who would be Gandalf's "Arthur", so to speak? Frodo? Aragorn? There are arguments for and against either one, which tends to show that there is precisely no typical Arthur-Merlin relationship in LOTR.
What about Nimue, Merlin's great love story, the woman who is his pupil and who enchants and dooms him? It is one of the most important Merlininan motifs. And yet I don't remember Gandalf falling for any skirt.
Of course there are Merlinian influences in Gandalf if we want to see them. But saying they're the same characters is just too restrictive. I might as well say Harry Potter and Luke Skywalker are the same. Hey, wait a minute
"Sometimes I'm callous and strange." -
uncloned023 — 16 years ago(September 17, 2009 01:32 AM)
Gandalf.
Why? simply because he was a man of few words and quick to act. It didn't take Gandalf more than 5 minutes before he gave the Steward of Gondor a dose of his pimp cane. My money is on the same thing happening in this instance. While Merlin is busy nattering on about the dragon and the future ect, ect, Gandalf would lay his staff right upside Merlin's head and call it a day.
Granted, Merlin did have that spiffy butane lighter in the end of his staff -
TheFatDruidofNacyl — 15 years ago(August 07, 2010 11:27 PM)
I think the biggest part would have to be what world they are in. But I would say that Merlin would win. One thing that Merlin could do is call on the lady of the lake for Excalibur that would be powerful enough in itself to kill Gandalf.
A man can change his stars
Fear me, Love me, do as I say, and I'll be your slave. -
pol-edra — 15 years ago(August 10, 2010 10:44 PM)
I think it's been mentioned before. And I'm pretty sure someone pointed out that "Merlin as Tolkien's inspiration for Gandalf" was a bit reductive. There's a lot of Odin in him, plus a couple other things. Just because a lot of people think Merlin when they see Gandalf doesn't mean Tolkien was thinking the same when creating his characters. Tolkien knew his Celtic and Arthurian lit, he just didn't particularly like them. On the other hand, he was thrilled by Finnish, Icelandic, German and Anglo-Saxon lit.
"Sometimes I'm callous and strange." -
BrooklynRedLeg — 14 years ago(April 19, 2011 03:33 AM)
Hmmmbit of thread necromancy.
Merlin - Son of Demon.
Gandalf - Angelic being that pre-existed the formation of the world and knew Eru (God).
Yea, Gandalf by a wide margin.
As for inspiration, I do believe (though I could be mistaken) that Tolkien stated a good deal of the inspiration for Gandalf came from Vinminen from The Kalevala.