Okay, while wathcing this 2+hour epic a thought occured to me - who would win in a battle between the two coolest mages
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pol-edra — 16 years ago(August 17, 2009 12:27 AM)
That's really a very narrow way of looking at Tolkien's work. Gandalf's not 100% Merlin just because he reminds us of Merlin. Just because modern readers know very little about Odin (not that they know much about Merlin) doesn't mean they shouldn't look carefully into Tolkien's work and Tolkien's sources before claiming his characters and themes are simply this, or that.
What exactly makes you think Gandalf and Merlin are "the same person"? The fact that they're both old men with long beards and pointy hats? Pray point me one Arthurian source that describes Merlin as such. There isn't any! That "typical wizard" image does not come from Merlin, at least not in a straightforward way, and especially not at the time Tolkien was creating Middle Earth.
The fact that they both stand at the side of the hero/king along the quest? Except Merlin disappears from the story a long time before the Quest actually begins, never to come back. And who would be Gandalf's "Arthur", so to speak? Frodo? Aragorn? There are arguments for and against either one, which tends to show that there is precisely no typical Arthur-Merlin relationship in LOTR.
What about Nimue, Merlin's great love story, the woman who is his pupil and who enchants and dooms him? It is one of the most important Merlininan motifs. And yet I don't remember Gandalf falling for any skirt.
Of course there are Merlinian influences in Gandalf if we want to see them. But saying they're the same characters is just too restrictive. I might as well say Harry Potter and Luke Skywalker are the same. Hey, wait a minute
"Sometimes I'm callous and strange." -
uncloned023 — 16 years ago(September 17, 2009 01:32 AM)
Gandalf.
Why? simply because he was a man of few words and quick to act. It didn't take Gandalf more than 5 minutes before he gave the Steward of Gondor a dose of his pimp cane. My money is on the same thing happening in this instance. While Merlin is busy nattering on about the dragon and the future ect, ect, Gandalf would lay his staff right upside Merlin's head and call it a day.
Granted, Merlin did have that spiffy butane lighter in the end of his staff -
TheFatDruidofNacyl — 15 years ago(August 07, 2010 11:27 PM)
I think the biggest part would have to be what world they are in. But I would say that Merlin would win. One thing that Merlin could do is call on the lady of the lake for Excalibur that would be powerful enough in itself to kill Gandalf.
A man can change his stars
Fear me, Love me, do as I say, and I'll be your slave. -
pol-edra — 15 years ago(August 10, 2010 10:44 PM)
I think it's been mentioned before. And I'm pretty sure someone pointed out that "Merlin as Tolkien's inspiration for Gandalf" was a bit reductive. There's a lot of Odin in him, plus a couple other things. Just because a lot of people think Merlin when they see Gandalf doesn't mean Tolkien was thinking the same when creating his characters. Tolkien knew his Celtic and Arthurian lit, he just didn't particularly like them. On the other hand, he was thrilled by Finnish, Icelandic, German and Anglo-Saxon lit.
"Sometimes I'm callous and strange." -
BrooklynRedLeg — 14 years ago(April 19, 2011 03:33 AM)
Hmmmbit of thread necromancy.
Merlin - Son of Demon.
Gandalf - Angelic being that pre-existed the formation of the world and knew Eru (God).
Yea, Gandalf by a wide margin.
As for inspiration, I do believe (though I could be mistaken) that Tolkien stated a good deal of the inspiration for Gandalf came from Vinminen from The Kalevala. -
AragornVsHicks — 14 years ago(October 13, 2011 02:52 AM)
Gandalf - for most of the reasons already mentioned by previous posters; going toe-to-toe with a demonic Balrog, being resurrected, fact that he's a demi-god (or something along those lines..), etc.
Though Merlin wouldn't be a push-over.. if anything, they'd land up dispatching one another during an epic clash of magic with Gandalf mysteriously "reviving" again, therefore, he'd hail victorious. -
tenwhoweretaken — 14 years ago(December 02, 2011 05:48 AM)
I'd say Merlin, simply because The Lord of the Rings is a terribly written novel.
It's a fascinating example of world building, to think that Tolkein went so far as to create a language for his faux-mythology is incredible, but that doesn't make a good novel. It makes a novel that nerds will be able to obsess over on a minute level, but not a good one. He might as well have written the first ever D&D style campaign book.
Mythology is fascinating when it's genuine, the impact that certain mythologies have had on the evolution of our culture is undeniable and it's important to study them. When the mythology is created as a personal project by a Professor of Anglo-Saxon literature, it's pointless mental masturbation and very, very boring. Tolkein may have a huge influence on the modern fantasy genre, but his writing has been surpassed many a time. The Silmarillion is almost impenetrable because it's so pretentiously archaic. To hear nerds talk of Tolkein's oeuvre like it's a genius contribution to literature is embarrassing. -
MJohnathen — 14 years ago(February 06, 2012 10:48 PM)
I'm inclined to believe that Merlin is a much more powerful wizard then Gandalf, Gandalf hasn't shown me anything to make me believe he is all that powerful, sure he came back as gandalf the white, but I don't believe he had anything to do with that, Infact I'd say Gandalf was killed.
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deeveed — 13 years ago(May 15, 2012 08:52 AM)
Merlin-Excalibur
Gandolf-a ring
That's just it. I have the feeling Merlin would give Gandalf a run for his money. In fact, Merlin seems to have the edge. He has more vials within himself of bubbling evil I think than Gandalf ever would and he'd use it for all its worth. And the "ring". Absolute power would be a feast for Merlin. Gandalf would be hard pressed. Even he would want the "ring"! -
WyldeGoose — 13 years ago(June 08, 2012 03:02 AM)
Merlin would come out on top. He's got amazing powers of foresight.
If Merlin were thrown into Middle-Earth and had to deal with the situation there (which would presume a lot of other things), he'd more than likely have found the One Ring in Gollum's possession, understanding its significance, had the wretch killed, and the Ring dealt with, while at the same time dealing with the dragon situation. Merlin's ability lies in pushing events to reach specific outcomes, all with a grander scheme in mind that's bigger even than himself.
The question is would he be able to realize Frodo's or Bilbo's ability to withstand the temptations of the Ring? Gandalf saw qualities in everyone he ran into, whereas Merlin's mind is usually elsewhere, often looking forward instead of dealing with the situation in the present. However, present events rarely come as a surprise to him (a notable exception was Arthur's knighting). So, if Bilbo or Frodo is significant by the time he's got things worked out, I think he might be aware of why. -
deeveed — 13 years ago(June 08, 2012 09:11 AM)
The question is would he be able to realize Frodo's or Bilbo's ability to withstand the temptations of the Ring?
In light of what I think the character of Merlin I'd have the impression that he'd think there's no way that they could handle the ring and he'd "know better" than they. In fact, Merlin would have the audacity to want it for hismelf and do what he'd like with it. He'd take a different tack than Gandalf.