Haven't seen QFF in many years, so I may be remembering this wrong, but.
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LilsZoo@hotmail.com — 16 years ago(May 22, 2009 11:33 PM)
They were not trying to humiliate him , they were trying to get his new genes into the pool,as even then they had been aware of inbreeding, they put him in the caged area and fed him well, a lot of baskets of fruit and cooked meat to give him strength so he was able to do his "job", the women were fat because the tribe was very proud that they could feed their people (women) enough food for them to BE fat and women who were larger could become pregnant and carry the babies full term easier than skinnier, even younger ones. The idea at that time was to survive and carry on, they did not have our ideals of pretty or desirable bodies being 'better' than another one. You have to remember some of the first parts of the movie, they did not concern thmeselves with looks only that a female may be in heat and therefore able to conceive. They did not take them on dates or to a movie, and it was thousands of years later before the notion that a female could have an orgasm or even should have. This is a very new idea to some of you Neanderthals still out there! I am WOMAN hear me roar!!!!
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Mehki_Girl — 16 years ago(February 06, 2010 06:45 PM)
Of course they had standards of beautythey decorated their bodies. Being fat back in medieval times was a sign of wealth as were long flowing sleeves (you had the money to "waste" cloth). The women may have been considered beautiful as well as fertile. The woman obviously enjoyed the anticipation of having sex and enjoyed it. Do you think orgasms were invented. It was organized religion and the idea of sin that ruined the orgasm and the pleasure of sex. You are measuring their standards against modern times that skinny is beautiful.
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krayzieworld — 11 years ago(August 22, 2014 01:03 AM)
Quest for Fire is not set in medieval times and therefore the conversation should not be about beauty standards. LilsZoo is right. Looks meant nothing at all when survival and keeping the tribal population healthy is the first priority. Men and women could look like trucks for all they cared.
Males are desirable if they are big, strong, could hunt, could feed and protect his mate and young. Females are desirable when they could efficiently gather plant food (knowing poison from medicine), withstand famine without losing fertility and ability to carry babies to term (i.e. fat), could provide nutrition (milk - large breasts) until the baby can eat the solid food mum gathers and dad hunts. -
johnericbackstrom — 18 years ago(August 04, 2007 06:55 AM)
new genetics to thier tribe, he was a big and strong male, earth mother type fat chicks were viewed as more fertile
check out plz
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000001/thread/45128020?d=56992598#56992598 -
mdwv2 — 18 years ago(August 08, 2007 02:04 PM)
I thought it was to humiliate him, and as a form of entertainment for the tribe. Similar to "let's get Mikey, he'll f@ck anything!". The write up on wikipedia also seems to suggest this. I definitely didn't get the feeling they were doing it to be nice to him.
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Big_Boss_Ogg — 18 years ago(August 10, 2007 12:59 PM)
You're wrong about that being to humiliate himDon't forget the line of 2 or 3 other earth mother types waiting giggling on the log outside the tent in what seemed to be anticipation, for their turn. They really did want his genetic mix into their tribe. Plus, he learned a new position in the bargain! No more doggy style only, and in 5000 years, Naoh's many times great grandson wrote the Kama Sutra. The End.
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adventis — 18 years ago(August 18, 2007 02:53 AM)
No no no!! I can't believe that this sort of comments comes from educated people like yourselves (this movie is not for airheads).
Before the movie, there was a novel, Quest for Fire (French: La Guerre du feu). From a case study on the novel regarding the scene, I quote:
"At first, he is teased and subjected to several forms of humiliation, but eventually the Ivaka accept him and show him their ways"
But for the less educated ones:- Because she's too fat for anyone from her own tribe, so as a punishment to a prisoner, she was offered.
No wait wait, - She's the daughter of the tribe chief, and she's a nympho, so this is standard procedure with captives.
- Because she's too fat for anyone from her own tribe, so as a punishment to a prisoner, she was offered.
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scottythefield — 18 years ago(September 06, 2007 02:17 AM)
It
is
plausible that the big ladies were considered less desirable to the men of the tribe, therefore why not let their prisoner do the dirty work, give them some affection and hopefully a baby too. There's nothing airheaded (or mean-spirited) about that. But if their intent was to humiliate/punish (which it certainly wasn't), they failed miserably. Naoh was happy enough with the offer, he didn't care about her weight. The only reason he hesitated at first was because he had no idea why she lay on her back. She had to get up on all fours to send the message.
Whatever the interpretation, there's no denying that the overweight women were being singled out. And the passage you quoted really doesn't clear anything up. -
Keeve — 18 years ago(September 12, 2007 10:31 AM)
They simply wanted to add his genetics to the tribe. If you watch it again, you will see that there were many women lined up for his services.
And regarding the "fat" thing? I think that was to indicate that she was quite fertile in that she had given birth to many babies. I really doubt the physical aesthetics of today applied back then. -
frightfan — 18 years ago(September 13, 2007 07:58 PM)
I think you're wrong there; overweight women have never been considered more desirable than those who are physically fit. Richer? More care-free? Definitely. More sexually appealing? Wishful thinking from the pudgy masses, I say.
But it's not like we have any real proof. There's definitely room for argument on the topic. However, from a purely logical POV, it only makes sense to be attracted to those who offer the best overall genetics - big, strong handsome men and lithe, fit women.
However, for the scene in question, I don't believe it was a "hazing" or punishment as many of the comments above are suggesting. The jeering crowd is acting similar to modern frat boys at a Tijuana strip club, really. I believe the comments suggesting the building of the gene pool make the most sense. The women are likely fat because they've had many children. Also, with enough men in the community, the women were likely left to domestic (less physically active) tasks.And that's the kind of day it is here in the mind of FRIGHTFAN!
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solongthanks — 18 years ago(September 16, 2007 10:21 AM)
"I think you're wrong there; overweight women have never been considered more desirable than those who are physically fit. Richer? More care-free? Definitely. More sexually appealing? Wishful thinking from the pudgy masses, I say.
But it's not like we have any real proof. There's definitely room for argument on the topic. However, from a purely logical POV, it only makes sense to be attracted to those who offer the best overall genetics - big, strong handsome men and lithe, fit women."
You make quite a contradiction here!
First you say that women have NEVER been considered more desireable than physically fit women- then you say 'it's not like we have ny real proof" So which is it? Seems like your first statement isn't based on reason. You may want to read about ideal women in roman and greek culture- look at paintings and other art- all through out history for that matter- then try your never statement
Regarding prehistoric views of women, we have very little evidence , but some of the only evidence we have about ideal women, comes from the venus figures found throughout Europe over tens of thousands of years- all of these figures depict large women, so if you're trying to base your claim on evidence, I think you're going in the wrong direction.
And you're incorrect that thin women give the impression of genetically superior- you're imposing current ideals on teh past women who can store weight, store energy. Women who can store energy can be healthier through times of less food, and have better chances in carrying children. Women gain weight when they are pregnant- thus heavy women can represent fertile women.
Another bit of evidence we have is that thin women/girls, and very atheletic women/girls, start menstruation later, and if they're really lean, they can reduce the frequency of menstruation (aka fertility).
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.
Philip K. Dick -
frightfan — 18 years ago(September 16, 2007 10:39 AM)
OK; I'll give you that maybe I could have avoided the word "never" but you're ignoring the other evidence that I'm only stating an opinion. I started with "I think" continued with "no real proof" and finished with ", I say."
Yet, the only thing sticking with you seems to be my (poor) choice to use the word "never".
Also, I said FIT, not THIN. In saying "overweight" I mean it in the medical sense, not in the "Britney was fat at the MVAs last week" sense.
roll eyesAnd that's the kind of day it is here in the mind of FRIGHTFAN!
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solongthanks — 18 years ago(September 16, 2007 10:47 AM)
"OK; I'll give you that maybe I could have avoided the word "never" but you're ignoring the other evidence that I'm only stating an opinion. I started with "I think" continued with "no real proof" and finished with ", I say.""
I wasn't ignoring the 'evidence' that you were only stating your opinion, because you used the word 'never' and if you want to break down your syntax here, you said you thought they were wrong, then used ";" which means a separate independent clause
"Yet, the only thing sticking with you seems to be my (poor) choice to use the word "never"."
Wow! Really? Did you not read my post where i discussed the evidence about the topic? That's a bizarre comment to make, given my post!
You're not really up for discussion on your posts I take it?
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.
Philip K. Dick -
valerie_lp — 18 years ago(September 20, 2007 10:28 PM)
Ahem
the dig about "educated" people must be responded to:
Prehistoric "Venus" figurines of extremely fat and/or pregnant women have been found all over Europe. Clearly they held some kind of sway over men's imaginations: http://www.nvcc.edu/home/blash/StoneCarving/history.htm
And have you ever seen a painting by Reubens? What we call "overweight" was called "sexy" not so very long ago! For the first several hundred thousand years of human history, fat=fertile-desirable.
Educated indeed. -
frightfan — 18 years ago(October 08, 2007 06:25 AM)
I stand by my opinion - which I still believe was not fully understood, so was perhaps inefficiently expressed - but I didn't mean to hijack this thread with a debate such as this.
I'm not "taking my ball and going home" - I just don't want to fuss about this subject this much.And that's the kind of day it is here in the mind of FRIGHTFAN!
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LtNOWIS — 18 years ago(October 07, 2007 11:53 PM)
I'm pretty sure they liked fat chicks in Tang Dynasty China.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_Dynasty#Tang_women -
seluloyd — 18 years ago(October 10, 2007 10:23 AM)
I have to agree The "Venus of Willendorf" depicts a large woman and was considered, by many scholars to be a symbol of fertility and was found throughout Europe.
We have to remember that this was in the days prior to the "idealized" version of the woman portrayed on the runway in a size "0". I'm still not entirely sure who finds skeletons that attractive but to each his own
It is most likely that cavemen would have found the larger woman more suitable for survival; wide hips for an increased chance of a male offspring and larger breasts which allow for better feeding. of course, I could just be reading way too much into this.
Just my thoughts!