Dagoth's human form vs. his monster form
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indiehjarta — 16 years ago(January 26, 2010 04:46 PM)
I finished reading the book today ( which is NOTHING like the movie). In the book for only a short moment is he described to be extremely handsome ( I can't remember the exact text from the book). It is only when Jehenna is not killed/sacrificed that he becomes a hideous winged monster.
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Koosh_King01 — 16 years ago(February 26, 2010 04:56 AM)
I recently got the novelization and you're right. Also, Dagoth actually talks! Not that he has anything particularly profound to say. Although he's depicted as a winged gargoyle-like monster in the book and comic, I gotta say I prefer the creature in the actual film. As opposed to looking like a generic demon creature it's very Lovecraftian in appearance (especially the mouth and neck area). My one regret is Dagoth didn't put up much of a fight. So much for the "god of gods."
Some other stuff in the book I find interesting:
-Taramis is a princess rather than a queen, and Jehnna is referred to as a lady. From what I understand, Taramis and the city of Shadizar actually originate from Howard's stories, and in said stories, Taramis is a princess, and the author of the film novelization wanted to be more accurate to Howard's writings.
-Instead of being tormented by some random villagers, Zula is the captive of some Corinthian soldiers. The novelization goes into some detail about how these guys are sworn enemies of Shadizar.
-Toth-Amon is named "Amon-Rama" (wasn't this also the name of the villain in the Conan cartoon series?). Instead of crystallizing upon touching the Heart of Ahriman, he turns into blood (!) and melts, then evaporates (!!). His motivation, unexplained in the film, is also revealed; like Taramis he wishes to resurrect Dagoth.
-The characters of Togra and the other three elite guards are omitted entirely. Instead, it's those Corinthian soldiers who ambush the party after they defeat Amon-Rama. I have to admit I prefer this to what is depicted in the film, as it made no sense for the elite guards to attack when they did, and for Conan to continue trusting Bombatta afterward makes Conan look dumb (That said, I do like the swordfight Conan and Togra have in the movie. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sven-Ole Thorsen rock). The book replacing the elite guards with other bad guys solves a lot of problems.
-In the film, Bombatta is, for the most part, clearly a devoted Dagoth worshiper the same as Taramis. He has no qualms about Jehnna getting sacrificed and even tries to stop Conan from interfering. In the book he's a pretty morally conflicted guy. He's in love with Jehnna, and torn between his affection for her and his duty to Taramis (and to Dagoth). It's nothing deep but it makes him seem like an actual character rather than just a mindless musclehead for Conan to fight.
-When confronted by the Keepers of the Horn, it is Bombatta who becomes impatient with all the talking and kills the guy demanding Jehnna, not Conan, and this kicks off the fighting. I'm unsure how I feel about this. The way it's worded in the book it makes Bombatta look like a sneak who stirs up trouble (which I guess was the point), whereas in the movie, negotiations had clearly already ended even before Conan threw the knife, so him killing that guy just punctuated things.
-Speaking of the Keepers of the Horn, not that it really matters but they and Amon-Rama are all described as being black. I understand this is how they're depicted in the script as well. Conversely, I'd have to check again to be certain but I'm pretty sure Bombatta, who in the movie is black, is described as white in the book.
-The book, to my delight, went into a lot more detail about Dagoth's past, how he lost his horn, and, as mentioned, clears up the issue over whether his monster form is his true form. It's also made clear Taramis has the hots for him, which was only hinted at in the film by hear giving the statue a shoulder rub at one point - Supposedly there's a scene in the script where she actually has sex with Dagoth's statue (!) but this isn't in the novelization; she does snuggle nude with it, though.
-As a final difference, Dagoth eats Taramis instead of just impaling her on his horn. I prefer the movie's version because it's more ironic. Taramis wanted to be "speared" by Dagoth, and she wasjust not in the way she expected!
Oy I'm corny.
All in all a pretty decent read. I'm a collector of movie novelizations and this one is one of the better ones. -
Xeokym — 15 years ago(June 06, 2010 07:36 AM)
Wow, thanks Koosh King, that really clears a lot of things up. I read the book way back but I barely remember a thing about it, and after watching the movie all these years I guess the movie plot has taken over any remnants of what I read about 26 years ago. I guess they just plain couldn't depict Dagoth
eating
Taramis, plus didn't have the time for it, in the midst of the chaos of the battle. That's interesting, and gross (LOL) about her having sex with the statueI guess it was either very physically correct, or she had a thing for horns!
The part where Conan rips the horn out of the monster was always a favorite scene of mine because the special effects were really good, and it sure did look like he was really ripping a horn out by its roots when Conan pries it back. I always assumed the god was meant to look like how it was portrayed as the statue, and that it
only
turned into a monster once the virgin sacrifice was bungled.
I always figured the wizard, alone on the island castle of mirrors, also intended to bring Dagoth to life, but I never did understand why, when he was dying, he grabbed onto the crystal. I mean, he must have known it would give him a horrible, painful death, right? I guess since he was basically dead already, he just wanted to touch it once before he was gone. shrug
"Questions are a danger to you, and a burden to others." -Mr. Krabs -
Aylmer — 9 years ago(November 22, 2016 03:16 PM)
I loved that scene as a kid too, owing to the excellent special effects work.
Of course all these years later I found that the monster in this movie and the wonderfully grotesque looking Space Guild Navigator in DUNE were done by the same special effects genius Giannetto De Rossi, who also brought us the excellently realized zombies in Lucio Fulci's best films; ZOMBI 2 and THE BEYOND.
A very talented effects-man, he unfortunately wasn't the best director with CY WARRIOR and KILLER CROCODILE 2 both failing as films despite a few great makeup / gore effects. -
Taranaichsaurus — 15 years ago(June 06, 2010 04:28 PM)
-Taramis is a princess rather than a queen, and Jehnna is referred to as a lady. From what I understand, Taramis and the city of Shadizar actually originate from Howard's stories, and in said stories, Taramis is a princess, and the author of the film novelization wanted to be more accurate to Howard's writings.
It's a nice thought on the author Robert Jordan' part, but it's doomed to failure, since the Conan films are totally incompatible with Howard. For one thing, Taramis from Howard's "A Witch Shall Be Born" was Queen of Khauran, a city-state hundreds of miles south of Shadizar in Zamora. She is also most decidedly not into worship of the dark gods, especially considering her ordeal in "Witch." I'd say turning Taramis into a princess was, in fact, an attempt on Jordan's part to distinguish her from Howard's Taramis, not to reconcile the two.
-Toth-Amon is named "Amon-Rama" (wasn't this also the name of the villain in the Conan cartoon series?). Instead of crystallizing upon touching the Heart of Ahriman, he turns into blood (!) and melts, then evaporates (!!). His motivation, unexplained in the film, is also revealed; like Taramis he wishes to resurrect Dagoth.
The villain of Conan the Adventurer was Wrath-Amon, eventually usurped by Ram-Amon, and it's probably to help distinguish Toth-Amon from the other Howard villain Thoth-Amon.
-In the film, Bombatta is, for the most part, clearly a devoted Dagoth worshiper the same as Taramis. He has no qualms about Jehnna getting sacrificed and even tries to stop Conan from interfering. In the book he's a pretty morally conflicted guy. He's in love with Jehnna, and torn between his affection for her and his duty to Taramis (and to Dagoth). It's nothing deep but it makes him seem like an actual character rather than just a mindless musclehead for Conan to fight.
Interesting. I personally thought Bombaata had some conflict in the films, but (because I'm daft) I thought it was due to an unrequited love for Conan. Notice how many opportunities he has to slay Conan, and either stays his hand, or chooses to simply delay him? I kid, I kid or do I? -
Chrisbc-1 — 14 years ago(October 03, 2011 09:54 PM)
Well the book aside, here is my theory. Dagoth always looked like the monster he was. Over thousands of years of the story being passed down from generation to generation his appearance changed. Eventually someone made the statue based on their own interpretation of the legend.
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Dream_Demon — 13 years ago(February 06, 2013 08:18 PM)
An interesting theory. My theory is that that Dagoth is actually a shapeshifter, his Greek God physique came about because of the control he had over his body. When the resurrection went awry, he became a mindless, rampaging monster and his body reverted to its true form due to the its lack of a mind.
Welcome to my Nightmare- Freddy Krueger -
zyggums — 11 years ago(May 07, 2014 08:07 PM)
I've read elsewhere that dargoths true form was that of a gargoyal, notice the repeted bird motif? The queens necklace. Feathers. Other things. I've read the dargth gargoya prop got broken so the one we see was a quci substitution. I think dargoth had two forms, a true gargoyl form, and the beautyful human form he used for making apperances in. Virgin sacrofice required.