This movie is racist!!!!
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AlexSefton — 9 years ago(December 06, 2016 11:58 PM)
That's not a racist joke; that a joke about a specific real person already in the public eye.
No no, that's the part about looking like a Kardashian. The part where they arrived to 'black guy sperm' from 'rejected sickle cell sample' was obviously a racial stereotype joke.
But, the racial slurs in movies from the 1980s and earlier are mostly "real" people being just as bigoted as society was at the time. They would call someone a beep without any trace of irony or shame. And the audience would never flinch.
I see what you mean. It was worse because the jokes were written by people who actually believed those racial differences, and was somehow a reflection of how society was back then. I would say that our society is actually progressing towards the more positive than negative. In which people are more aware of the need for equality and mutual respect. We can't let people get discouraged by terms like political correctness.
There are people who genuinely want fairness and equality, both from the weaker group (minority) and the stronger group (majority). Terms like PC creates prejudice towards these people. It undermines their ideals, which in the purest form, is basically "justice for all". This includes fighting for mutual respect in the entertainment industry as well. -
bing-57 — 9 years ago(December 07, 2016 10:07 AM)
It was worse because the jokes were written by people who actually believed those racial differences, and was somehow a reflection of how society was back then.
Right. It's about what people think, rather than what they do. You can add a few racist jokes into your movie if the intent is to show that intolerance in a bad light. When Archer uses a slur, it is generally followed by Lana or someone else commenting on how inappropriate or insensitive that was. Notice that Archer never defends his use of the slur. That scene sends a positive message to the audience, despite including a slur.
In Sixteen Candles, the characters and the script just made fun of Dong without any indication to the audience that it was inappropriate.
I would say that our society is actually progressing towards the more positive than negative.
Yes we are. TV and movies reflect that, in that characters that engage in bigoted behavior are usually shown in a bad light.
But, the real question is whether attitudes are changing rather than just appearances. It's one thing for an employer to announce that he is equal-opportunity, give minorities fair job interviews, and refrain from using ethnic slurs in public. But, if that employer consistently gives the jobs to only white men, then it's probable that he is not as enlightened as he presents himself.
In a similar vein, we heard Trump say all throughout his campaign that he wanted to "drain the swamp" of Washington by getting rid of all the lobbyists and big bankers. Yet, he is now nominating those exact people to his cabinet. Should we believe his words or his actions?
Terms like PC creates prejudice towards these people. It undermines their ideals, which in the purest form, is basically "justice for all".
I agree. Being PC is the equivalent of "giving lip service." You present yourself to the public one way, but that doesn't always mean that you are the same way deep down inside yourself. Being PC can easily be seen as phony.
But, being PC is an important first step. If a person is forced by society to be PC for long enough, that person may actually start to loosen their grip on their deep-seated prejudices. If you are a white person and are forced to work with, and be nice to, the new black guy on the job, you may actually come to realize that he's not a bad guy trying to steal your wallet. He's a hard-working guy with a family just like you and you are happy to share a beer with him after work. If you hadn't been forced to be PC with the guy, you probably wouldn't have grown and changed any of your prejudices.
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)? -
AlexSefton — 9 years ago(December 07, 2016 10:21 PM)
I agree with everything you said in your last post.
Not sure if I was being too naive about movies from the old days. I just felt that people were more polite and therefore seemed more civilised compared to today. At least we were more civilised in the 60s compared to now in 2010s. But I'm not sure if we were less prejudiced back then. Seeing that we had segregation at the time. -
bing-57 — 9 years ago(December 07, 2016 11:09 PM)
I just felt that people were more polite and therefore seemed more civilised compared to today.
Yes. Until the last few decades, being civilized meant being polite and observing good manners. There was a set procedure on how to behave around other people. You said "please" and "thank you" all the time. You presented yourself with a calling card and wrote thank-you letters.
But, prejudice and bigotry ran rampant. You spoke with the man of the house, not the lady. You ignored the beggars on the street. The butler was warned not to engage in chit-chat with the guests. There was a class system often based on race or occupation and you just did not cross class boundaries.
Good manners were seen as a way to tell fine, upstanding white men from the lower classes. The elite has time and money to spend on learning good manners. The workers did not. Manners were a way of segregating the classes.
But I'm not sure if we were less prejudiced back then. Seeing that we had segregation at the time.
People were always a lot more open about their prejudices in the old days. They used ethnic slurs openly. And why not, people tended to get reinforcement from their social groups. If every white man you knew was in the KKK, you could express your anti-black feelings around them and they'd cheer you on.
TV and the internet have helped put the brakes on that kind of behavior. We have TV shows with black or gay characters that are presented as equals to white men. Every cop show or doctor show seems to have about half women in key roles. The melting pot is shown to be a real thing.
The internet is a double-edged sword, though. While it does allow people to be exposed to more and different people and cultures, it does also encourage people with false beliefs to find each other and reinforce their bad behavior.
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)? -
AlexSefton — 9 years ago(December 10, 2016 11:28 AM)
People were always a lot more open about their prejudices in the old days. They used ethnic slurs openly.
They did this for the wrong reasons, because they feel invincible not because they feel honesty is best.
The internet is a double-edged sword, though. While it does allow people to be exposed to more and different people and cultures, it does also encourage people with false beliefs to find each other and reinforce their bad behavior.
Although "false beliefs" is subjective to everyone, I agree with your point about people finding each other and reinforcing negative behaviours. This is why I believe that good well-educated adults also have the responsibility to go online and put contents on the internet with the aim to educate youngsters, the same way as a teacher or a parent would in their own society. This isn't
forcing
your belief to other people or brainwashing children or anything. It's simply mature adults being more involved in the mental and psychological development of the younger generation, not just in real life but also on the internet. I'm not talking about telling people off over the internet. But by giving advice or simply having a civilised discussion like you and I have done so far. We have a role in showing exemplary attitude which, if done in a macro scale, would have an impact on how our society would evolve. -
bing-57 — 9 years ago(December 11, 2016 10:11 AM)
by giving advice or simply having a civilised discussion like you and I have done so far.
I usually a less altruistic reason for having civilized discourse with racists; nothing pisses them off more than debating someone who won't take the bait and swear with them.
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)? -
AlexSefton — 9 years ago(December 11, 2016 11:37 PM)
I don't mean pissing off racists or anyone. I mean trying to counter the negativity that is spreading around through the cyber world. To try and influence more people to act more positive that's all.
To be honest, I'm not a good example of positive attitude myself. But I just think that if we don't even try at all, the world will become worse and worse.
You know, most people aren't aware that each year we see an increasing number of bullying, hate crime, and depression. People are more and more apathetic to one another. I believe there's a real concern in the decline of the moral of society. -
Stevicus-2 — 9 years ago(December 05, 2016 12:44 PM)
Unless you grew up in the 80s, you wouldn't understand. There was a large influx of Asian culture into the "new wave" of 80s (Japanese character letters, songs, clothes). The movie was simply a reflection of that.
I would also mention that during the 70s, there was a brief period when a certain kind of politically incorrect (by today's standard) humor was generally accepted and not viewed as intentionally derisive. Desegregation was still in process, and any overt or outright bigotry or racial animosity was opposed. Most people could tell the difference between someone who was an outright bigot as opposed to someone who's just cracking a few off-color jokes.
As for Asian culture and stereotypes, I'm reminded of an old episode of the "Our Gang" series in which one of the kids' mother is pregnant and about to have her fourth child. Just by coincidence, the kid reads in one of his schoolbooks that "every fourth child born is Chinese," which would have been true back then (as a proportion of global birth rates). But he's a kid, so he reasons that this must mean that his mother's new baby will be born Chinese. The kid freaks out, and wonders what he's going to do. One of the other kids (Spanky, I think) tells him of a Chinese family he knew of, "and they're swell," according to Spanky. So, nothing to worry about, since Chinese people are swell. They go and visit this family and play with the Chinese kid and talk to the parents, who are constantly quoting Confucius. Now, that came off as your "stereotypical" Chinese family as it would have been viewed in the 1930s and 40s. -
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bhilburn — 11 years ago(June 08, 2014 05:00 PM)
There are at least another dozen threads on this subject here.
Racist? no
PC? who cares
Funny? hell yeah?
Goooooonnnnnnnnggggggggg!!!!
"check the imdb cast list before asking who portrayed who in movies please" -
ItsEddieHaskellBeyotch — 11 years ago(August 24, 2014 11:45 PM)
Hughes was just showing how racially insensitive upper middle class whites can be concerning their relations with other ethnic types. Basically he wrote what he knew having been born and bred in that environment.
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When there's no more room in Hollywood, remakes shall walk the Earth.
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aping46052 — 11 years ago(November 12, 2014 06:30 AM)
Read tge trivia section. The Asian actor who played the Asian character, did the audition in a mock if Korean, then spoke PERFECT English. So if there was any racism it was done by Asian actor. Typical liberal response, I don't like something so it's whatever ism fits what you want to see.
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sugar_glazed — 11 years ago(February 24, 2015 02:13 PM)
The part that I found racist was when Sam and her friend were talking about Trans-Ams and boys. Sam says she wants a black one to which her friend responds in a shocked/horrified tone "black guy?!" Sam reassures her she wants a black Trans-am and a pink guy. Her friend sighs in relief. Wow.
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first-things-first — 10 years ago(April 19, 2015 03:22 PM)
It's not as politically correct today. The Black Guy reference, the Asian jokes, the Italian reference, her breast size, the geek, teens having sex, and the inappropriate reference to male homosexuals wouldn't make it today. But I don't think John Hughes was racist, he saw an opportunity to make fun of a lot of people. He was in it for the laughs. So if you got the laugh, it was okay. It's when people are in it to hurt people that we stop laughing. I remember a post that said labels were used to hurt people in some movies. They made fun of you if you were different. That's hateful. Here, they were looking for laughs, 80's style. It might look like an exploitation movie, making fun of teenagers. But if you accept that going in, then it's for the laughs. Like all the 80's horror flicks, you go in knowing the teens will not survive.
Your second life is never like your first. Sometimes it's even better