Sending Reese back in time to save Sarah was pointless
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Erica's_Husband — 4 years ago(November 30, 2021 02:34 AM)
Reese saved Sarah and taught her how to be strong enough to kill a ****ing Terminator all by herself. So mission accomplished.
Donna's second paragraph pretty much sums it up. Actually, you're right too, the whole thing seems stuck in a time loop.
But not really a time loop. Reese is fighting to keep his present intact. If he fails, he and humanity lost.
He can't save humanity, he can only not let humanity down. -
Karl Aksel — 4 years ago(November 30, 2021 07:41 AM)
But not really a time loop. Reese is fighting to keep his present intact. If he fails, he and humanity lost.
He can't save humanity, he can only not let humanity down.
But Reese going back in time doesn't change anything for his own timeline. If the timeline would have changed for the worse by the T-800, then it would have changed the instant it was sent back in time. There would not have been an opportunity for humanity to react after the fact. Consider:- Skynet sends the T-800 back in time to kill Connor's mother before he could be born.
1a) If the T-800 succeeds, and this timeline is affected, then the very instant the T-800 is sent back in time the past will have changed and Connor cannot send Reese back in time because Connor doesn't exist. The only way for humanity to prevent this would be to know
ahead
of time that Skynet was going to send someone back in time - and humanity would have to send Reese back in time
before
Skynet sent the T-800. It would be too late after. But then they couldn't know about it ahead of time, either.
1b) If the present has
not
changed the very instant the T-800 has been sent back in time, then either 1b$) the T-800 has failed, without Reese having been sent back in time, or 1b£) the T-800 succeeded, but created a new timeline and
this
timeline is unaffected.
1b$) This could be remedied by Skynet sending more terminators back in time to aid the first T-800 at the same time. They could keep sending terminators back in time until the present suddenly changed, and the change would also have gone unnoticed by everyone. Because the past is the past, after all: whatever the past is, everyone in the present would be used to that past.
1b£) This would be far more likely, and sending additional terminators back in time would be pointless. Sending Reese back in time would be equally pointless for humanity, as the timeline doesn't need saving - it is unaffected by time-travel. If Connor is alive, Connor was born - that means his mother wasn't killed. So there's nothing to fix. If Skynet sent a terminator back in time, then whatever changes it would have made would already
have
been made. It's not like "Oh no, in two hours from now, 45 years ago, Sarah is going to be killed! We must do something!" Two hours from now 45 years ago still happened 45 years ago.
- Skynet sends the T-800 back in time to kill Connor's mother before he could be born.
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Erica's_Husband — 4 years ago(November 30, 2021 05:14 PM)
You're right, the whole thing was pointless. Additionally, Reese could've easily altered the timeline negatively by impregnating Sarah, since he's not the original father. A different father could've easily prevented mankind from having the savior that it did.
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Control Freak — 4 years ago(December 04, 2021 11:04 PM)
You're right, the whole thing was pointless. Additionally, Reese could've easily altered the timeline negatively by impregnating Sarah, since he's not the original father. A different father could've easily prevented mankind from having the savior that it did.
You're making the plot more complicated than it was.
Donna is the only member of filmboards that nimda punished for wanting to leave. -
Control Freak — 4 years ago(December 05, 2021 12:31 AM)
I suppose you're right. He could have just let the janitor inside to see that he was a Terminator and then he would have had to kill him afterwards.
Donna is the only member of filmboards that nimda punished for wanting to leave. -
preachcaleb — 4 years ago(February 23, 2022 04:15 PM)
So humanity would be lost, and the resistance would not be in a position to send Kyle Reese back in time to begin with.
Unless the only reason it didn't succeed is because they sent him back.
And why should we worry about any timelines other than our own?
Why not? I'd say good on them if that's how they felt. Kinda like Trunks in Dragonball Z. He couldn't affect his own timeline, but he still worked to save others'.
So many stories, so little time. -
Karl Aksel — 4 years ago(March 06, 2022 11:26 PM)
Unless the only reason it didn't succeed is because they sent him back.
You mean the only reason Skynet didn't succeed is because they sent the T-800 back? Yes, I dealt with that in my second paragraph.
Why not? I'd say good on them if that's how they felt.
Except they won't
actually
be saving any timelines - they'd just be creating new ones. -
preachcaleb — 4 years ago(March 07, 2022 02:31 PM)
No, no. The humans succeeded because they sent Kyle back.
Except they won't actually be saving any timelines - they'd just be creating new ones.
Except they will. The varying timelines could've already existed regardless of time travel. The novel Timeline actually covers that quite well. It's less time travel, and more timeline hopping.
As I said, Trunks was able to save a different timeline from his own. It's quite a noble task.
So many stories, so little time. -
Karl Aksel — 4 years ago(March 08, 2022 09:37 AM)
No, no. The humans succeeded because they sent Kyle back.
Impossible. Because being in a position to send Kyle back could only mean one thing: the terminator had failed. Skynet's mission would have succeeded or failed the instant they sent the terminator back in time, giving humanity no time at all to react.
Except they will. The varying timelines could've already existed regardless of time travel. The novel Timeline actually covers that quite well. It's less time travel, and more timeline hopping.
That means there's an infinite amount of timelines already existing, and attempting to alter other timelines is therefore futile. -
preachcaleb — 4 years ago(March 08, 2022 02:25 PM)
Impossible. Because being in a position to send Kyle back could only mean one thing: the terminator had failed. Skynet's mission would have succeeded or failed the instant they sent the terminator back in time, giving humanity no time at all to react.
It failed because they sent Reese back. Remember: the only reason John Conner even exists is because Reese was sent back to the past. Without Reese going back in time, there'd be no reason to send a terminator back in time in the first place. It was always destined to happen as it happened.
That means there's an infinite amount of timelines already existing, and attempting to alter other timelines is therefore futile.
Not at all. As I said, it's still a noble gesture to save other people's timeline. Saving lives is not futile at all. It's a beautiful and selfless gesture.
So many stories, so little time. -
Karl Aksel — 3 years ago(October 06, 2022 08:16 AM)
It failed because they sent Reese back.
That's what the movie intends, yes, but it's a logical flaw with the plot. Had Kyle been necessary to prevent the terminator from succeeding, they would not have been able to send Kyle back in the first place. Skynet sent the Terminator back in time first. Anything the Terminator would have succeeded in doing, would have already happened at that point. Meaning the instant it was sent back in time, Connor would have vanished - as would everyone's memory of Connor. In other words, if Connor was still around to send Kyle back in time, it could only be because it wasn't necessary to do so - the terminator had already failed.
Not at all. As I said, it's still a noble gesture to save other people's timeline. Saving lives is not futile at all. It's a beautiful and selfless gesture.
What's noble about it? You wouldn't be saving anyone in
existing
timelines, you would be creating new ones - only to
maybe
save them. Maybe doom them. And you can never know if your contribution helped or hindered. Meanwhile, your
own
timeline suffers for it, because you are wasting precious resources. -
preachcaleb — 3 years ago(October 06, 2022 01:10 PM)
Anything the Terminator would have succeeded in doing, would have already happened at that point. Meaning the instant it was sent back in time, Connor would have vanished - as would everyone's memory of Connor. In other words, if Connor was still around to send Kyle back in time, it could only be because it wasn't necessary to do so - the terminator had already failed.
That's assuming the movie's time travel works on that logic. It could be based on the logic of The Sound of Thunder, where changes come in waves, and there's time to undo things. Or on Days of Future Past where past and present can be running congruently.
But it is a good point. The Terminator was fated to fail regardless. Kyle's fate was to father John Connor.
What's noble about it? You wouldn't be saving anyone in existing timelines, you would be creating new ones - only to maybe save them. Maybe doom them. And you can never know if your contribution helped or hindered. Meanwhile, your own timeline suffers for it, because you are wasting precious resources.
Not at all. As yourself agreed, these infinite timelines already exist. So they're not creating new ones. They're saving existing ones. Nothing's gone to waste is some people are saved. It's even more noble to help others when you'll receive nothing in return. That's true nobility.
So many stories, so little time. -
Karl Aksel — 3 years ago(October 07, 2022 06:07 AM)
That's assuming the movie's time travel works on that logic.
Of course it doesn't follow that logic. It's a logic flaw I'm describing.
Not at all. As yourself agreed, these infinite timelines already exist. So they're not creating new ones. They're saving existing ones. Nothing's gone to waste is some people are saved. It's even more noble to help others when you'll receive nothing in return. That's true nobility.
But you have no control over what you are doing. You can never check to see the results your actions had on a different timeline; you are acting blind. So for all you know, you might be making things worse. Meanwhile, you are betraying your own people, to whom you owe loyalty. You
could
have helped them, but chose to help their alter egos instead - and you don't even know if you've helped
them
. It is noble to help strangers, sure, but only if you have the resources to do so. If your family is trapped inside a burning building, and my family is trapped inside a burning building, you save your own first. No one would expect you to do otherwise, and even I would not place an ounce of blame on you.