Couple of questions
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emmaclarke781 — 13 years ago(October 14, 2012 12:47 PM)
1.At the start there were two Soviet Soldiers at Florya's house who wanted him to join the Partisans.
2.You might be right about the undercover idea, but I think they were wearing Soviet uniforms.
3.Yes you are right about the plane and the Germans thinking there were Partisans nearby.Floyra did blame himself for the deaths of his mother and sisters. His father was away in the Red Army.
4. I don't know what animal that was. Some kind of Ferret?
history is a battle fought by a great evil,struggling to crush a small kernel of human kindness -
aarone2884 — 13 years ago(October 15, 2012 04:52 AM)
Definitely German uniforms. I know German uniforms.
The uniform was German Wermacht with the collar thing which denotes a MP.
So i was a bit confused about that i just assume they where partisans who where dressed as Germans. -
emmaclarke781 — 13 years ago(October 15, 2012 05:06 AM)
But if they were Germans or pretending to be Germans, why were the villagers smiling when Floyra left with them? They knew it was the partisans. And the guy with the helmet said to floyra's mother that he was shot by a german bullet
history is a battle fought by a great evil,struggling to crush a small kernel of human kindness -
aarone2884 — 13 years ago(October 15, 2012 01:30 PM)
Like i said, i think they are the partisans, i just wanted confirmation as one second they are going away with Germans (if they are Germans it could be they took them as slave labour) also remember how he was thrown out of the house.
And next scene he is in a partisan camp in the woods.
The only thing tieing the scenes together is the German soldier with the glasses on is also a the camp.
But i also think i see that same camp at the village later as a German (i didnt confirm that though)
So i was a bit confused. Ill just take it that they where partisans dressed as German soldiers as a cover. -
aliza_tvito — 13 years ago(October 15, 2012 09:19 PM)
Aarone! the two partisans just posed as a Germans, in purpose to avoid suspicion that in reality Flyora joined Partisans. It was "staged", with the support of Flyora's mother "playing her part" ("where're you taking him? what did he do?"). Tragically, all that didn't work, so Flyora's village folks, who didn't manage to escape, were murdered, including Flyora's mother and sisters.
Btw one of the "Germans" spoke Russian, another - Belorussian.
Listen to your enemy, for God is talking -
emmaclarke781 — 13 years ago(October 16, 2012 05:21 AM)
I re-watched the scene on my DVD and this is what I think was going on. Those two men turned up to recruit Floyra for the partisans.Floyra's mother was upset because, understandably, she didn't want her teenage son to be a child soldier.
Sensing this, the two men(one appeared to be a soldier, the other a commissar)decided to take Floyra by force.They also stole the family's poultry, probably with the excuse that they were taking it for the partisans.The man in the cart appeared to be a German prisoner.The villagers (especially the mayor and Floyras young friend)were proud that Floyra was leaving to join the partisans. The two Soviet men took Floyra and the German prisoner, to the partisan's base in the woods. The German prisoner was probably executed.
I would guess that you are right about the German uniforms-they were probably wearing German uniforms, so that if they came across any Germans, the Germans would think that they-the two men-were also Germans and were arresting people, when they were really recruiting people for the partisans. If they were pretending to be Germans, that would explain how they captured the German man.
Remember, Joesph Stalin, the leader of the Soviet Union at that time, was as brutal as Hitler- its estimated that 20-25 million people died under Stalin's reign.He was perfectly capable of ordering that children be forced to go and fight.
history is a battle fought by a great evil,struggling to crush a small kernel of human kindness -
aliza_tvito — 13 years ago(October 16, 2012 08:03 AM)
///the two men(one appeared to be a soldier, the other a commissar)decided to take Floyra by force.They also stole the family's ///
it's not right, Emma.
the decision to join Partisans Flyora took by himself, he dug the rifle at the site of a battlegroung - to be accepted in their ranks (as it was shown at the beginning). The Mother begged Flyora not to do join the Partisans just before the pair arrived, for she knew what is going to happen.
///also stole the family's poultry/// - the poultry wasn't "stolen". Sadly, the almost only source for partisans to have a food supply - was taking it forcibly from a people.
///He (Stalin) was perfectly capable of ordering that children be forced to go and fight.///
Sorry, it's not truth. As a former Soviet person, I perfecly know about who Stalin was, but also know that children weren't recruited by Soviet authorities. Many kids in the occupied zones were orphaned; they witnessed the horrors Nazi perpetrated and were eager to take their revenge. Many of them were adopted by Partisan units as a spies. These kids weren't forced, but volunteered to fight.
Listen to your enemy, for God is talking -
emmaclarke781 — 13 years ago(October 16, 2012 09:49 AM)
Flyora did want to join but if he had said no, I'm sure the two men would have taken him anyway. Floyra's mother clearly didn't want her son to go but those two men took no notice of her.
Taking something forcibly from someone-that is the definition of stealing.
I'm sure many children did volunteer to fight. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if Stalin had ordered them to go.As a former soviet person- you mean you were a Refusenik?
history is a battle fought by a great evil,struggling to crush a small kernel of human kindness -
emmaclarke781 — 13 years ago(October 17, 2012 05:20 AM)
As a very opinionated person, it is very hard for me to admit this:)But you are right. I looked but I couldn't find any account of a Soviet child being forced to fight.
I'm sorry about all my questions:) Though if I had know you had actually lived in Russia, I would have asked a lot more! I assumed you were born in Israel and that your parents were Russians. I have never met an Israeli person or indeed any Jewish person.
I have meet several Russians, but they were teenagers, foreign exchange students, only interested in silly things like mobile phones and lady gaga, instead of important things like Wars, Hitler, Putin and Stalin:) Yes, I know my interests are very strange:)
history is a battle fought by a great evil,struggling to crush a small kernel of human kindness -
emmaclarke781 — 13 years ago(October 17, 2012 10:13 AM)
Do you ever miss Latvia?
I love learning about the Countries of Eastern Europe. They have a fascinating(and a little tragic) history.
I'm from Cork, which is the second largest city in the Republic of Ireland after Dublin. My mother is Irish, my father is from Norfolk in England. No I can't speak Gaeilge:)
Hardly anyone in Ireland can, expect for people in some Western regions, like Galway. We study Irish at school but no-one speaks it as a first language. It died out really after the Great Famine of the 1840s. About a million people died, another million emigrated to England, Canada or America. After that most people spoke English as a first language and its been that way ever since.
history is a battle fought by a great evil,struggling to crush a small kernel of human kindness -
emmaclarke781 — 13 years ago(October 18, 2012 09:45 AM)
I'm surprised that you can speak Russian if you lived in Latvia. I thought the Latvians disliked the Russians? What's Israel like?
I have mentioned the Palestinians on my other posts on Schindler's List and Downfall. I put thereI deplore the Israel's government past and present treatment of the Palestinians. But don't misunderstand-I support Israel's right to exist and I am not remotely Anti-Semitic. I think its a very complex issue with right and wrong on both sides. Jewish people deserved a home land after the horrors of World War Two. But I do think what happened to the Palestinians in 1948 was a tragedy. But they have no right and never will have, to bomb Israeli citizens.
The history of Eastern Europe is very depressing. I enjoy learning about it though. I think Westerners have a very snobby attitude towards Slavs-we think we are superior and they are backwards and primitive. Most of us don't know anything about their history or culture. I think we have no right to judge.
The Irish Famine was caused by Potato blight. Some people think the Famine was a genocide because the British government didn't do much to help. It's often compared to the Holodomor famine in Ukraine. I don't think it was a genocide, I think it was more a case of negligence by the British Government. I think the Holodomor was different though. I don't know if it was a genocide, but while blight caused the Irish Famine, Stalin's policies seem to have caused the Holodomor. I remember reading that there were even signs in Ukraine put up by the government saying,Good Soviet Citizens don't eat each other.The history of Ukraine and Belarus in particular, is very, very, tragic.
Ireland was quite prosperous in the90s and early20s though now there's a recession. God, I do go on!
history is a battle fought by a great evil,struggling to crush a small kernel of human kindness -
emmaclarke781 — 13 years ago(October 19, 2012 02:53 AM)
Ah, yes that makes sense. I remember reading in a book called 'In Europe' by Geert Mak where he said that Latvians, of the 3 Baltic States, had the worst relations with Russians. It seems Ethnic Russians have a pretty hard time in Latvia and Estonia. I remember an Estonian girl at my school, who hated the Russians.
I personally think they are wrong to think like that. It is not the fault of the whole Russian people, that the Red army invaded the 3 Baltic States. As you rightly say, to dislike someone because of their ethnicity is just wrong and ridiculous.
There are quite a few Latvians, Poles, Estonians and Lithuanians in Cork. They face some racism from Irish People but in general I think (and I hope) that most Irish people have no problem with them. Of my 4 friends, only one is Irish. The other friend is German, the other friend is Polish and my final friend is from Afghanistan.
My Polish friend, Kasia, has been to Israel. Haifa. She said it was a Beautifiul city:) What part of Israel are you from? And (please don't be offended) are you male or female? I'm guessing Female, because of Aliza but I know that in some languages, 'A' is masculine, not feminine.
history is a battle fought by a great evil,struggling to crush a small kernel of human kindness -
jbhat — 13 years ago(October 23, 2012 04:34 PM)
partisan forces - yes children fight, see defiance another example
but in regular soviet army, no children fight. there is a difference between partisans and conventional army. partisans is like guerilla warfare or rebels. they aren't directly following stalin's order, more of a rebel force. -
franzkabuki — 13 years ago(December 19, 2012 02:05 PM)
"It seems ethnic Russians have a pretty hard time in Latvia and Estonia".
Theyre sometimes probably less likely to be hired for a well paying job when in competition with a native applicant with a similar set of skills, but thats about all I can think of (well, of course they always first have to go through the trouble of learning the local language but one cant expect to make great career in England without speaking English, either, can they?) As for the "hate" they encounter, a lot it is indeed irrational and prejudiced, stemming from the historical injustice inficted by the Soveit Union, but its a two-way street all the same; while its not a prevalent attitude, a lot of the Russian minority still holds the view - mostly expressed privately - that Russia is the rightful, entitled master of the Baltic countries. And the fact that Russia frequently attempts to interfere with our internal politics (most scandalously, they demanded the Prime Minister of Estonia be replaced in 2007), doesnt exactly make the lot of them more endearing, either.
"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan