Presumably you were at the liquidation of a Byelorussian village in 1943 and know the truth of how it went down?
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Akkarogg — 16 years ago(January 04, 2010 12:40 PM)
23 000 000 million soviets died Mister! This is recorded and Confirmed by history!
So don't make such ridiculous claims!
Conspiracy theorists can't wish these tragedies away.
Or Pherhaps it is because of American apprehensiveness toward Communism that you are reluctant to beleive in this! -
Come_to_Machine — 11 years ago(October 25, 2014 05:48 AM)
Sometimes logic eludes men, even in desperate times and there is no time more desperate than war. I would like to respond to your criticism towards the director and his "lack of knowledge" towards the subject he decided to depict.
Even thought German army and it's soldiers were role models of discipline, obedience and heroism which all came from their Prussian officer class, with the introduction of Nazi ideology those lost some of their edge due to their conflicting nature. It is no secret that the Wehrmacht discouraged their officers (and many of them were descendants of a long line of military men) from being active in politics. It is also no secret that there was an open dislike between the regular army (das Heer) and the military wing of the SS, the Waffen-SS, whose soldiers we see depicted in this movie. The Waffen-SS men were ideological soldiers and were expected to fight along side the regular army, on the front. They also, with some special units from the SS, conducted behind the front operations fighting against the partisans and enforcing racial laws. Even though they were disciplined their main motivation was their ideology, for which they were ready to die for. First divisions were made up of Germans but later in the war Waffen-SS expanded to become, first Germanic (volunteers from Norway, Denmark), European Waffen-SS (Dutch, Belgian, French, Muslims from the Balkans, Volksdeutschers, Ukrainians, Cossacks and even Russians). These troops were in no way true representation of the German Army but they filled the holes that were left by so many dead in the later stages of the war. In the movie we clearly see several Cossacks of which most notable is the man that carries two double-barrel shotguns and jumps from the barn tower after it has already been set on fire which earns him an applause from the troops. One unit that became the most infamous was the Dirlewanger brigade (later renamed to a division) which was run by an convicted rapist Oscar Dirlewanger and consisted of poachers, rapists, Russian POW-s and other convicts who wanted to earn a pardon by wearing a uniform. I say wearing a uniform because they did very little fighting and mostly did atrocities behind the front and when they were thrown into a real battle most of them fled.
I hope I managed in this short segment to show who were the men wearing the German uniform in this movie. They didnt care about the ammo, about the war, they were hedonists with an open tab in war time. They orchestrated their own orgy of violence and should not be identified with the members of the regular German army and even with some more respectable units of the Waffen-SS. They had a job to do, to kill, to purge, and means of doing so were left to them! -
poochiewoochie — 16 years ago(December 24, 2009 01:07 AM)
I'm in that age group and I think Come and See is the best movie about WW2 ever made. Why? Because there is no Hollywood involvement. The movie is graphic, brutal and to the point. One of the reviewers was right-Come and See makes Schindler's List look like Sesame Street.
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HwajangshilAgashi — 16 years ago(January 09, 2010 10:06 PM)
Does a movie have to be graphic and brutal to qualify as "good" or "the best"? Although this movie is definitely more graphic and brutal than "Schindler's List", the latter is still far superior. It is a better anti-war movie, because, although it clearly shows the Nazis as being wrong, it does not outright vilify Germans, and allows for some humanity even in Nazis.
Germans in "Come and See" are portrayed as a bunch of psychos. Nobody is arguing that many Soviets (among others) were killed. Entire villages, even. It was not, however, done by crazy guys in shorts, and other ridiculous characters, but by a well organized army who strictly adhered to orders. In my opinion, the reason why the German soldiers were portrayed as crazy idiots is to show that they WERE NOT robots (as people like to say when it suits their argument), but individual people who chose to commit these acts purely out of their own enjoyment, and not because they were blindly following orders. One more thing - maybe at the end, when they appeal to our emotions by saying how many villages including the villagers were burnt down, they should have worded it something like this "6xx villages, along with all women, children and men unable to bear arms, were burnt during WWII. All capable men, meanwhile, were out burning villages of their own, raping and killing women and children"
In my opinion, the best war movie ever made is "Die Bruecke" ("The Bridge"). Why? Because (spoiler alert?) there is no enemy to vilify, other than war itself. When the Americans finally make an appearance at the end of the movie, they are the furthest from an enemy one could imagine, and it is clearly shown how the main protagonists (German soldiers) become the victims of the ideas of war, and not the enemy himself.
Another great anti-war movie is "All Quiet on the Western Front", though the book is so much superior to the movie adaptation.
And yet another movie I would strongly recommend is "Joyeux Nol", which has a completely different angle, but makes some very strong points against war.
Strangely enough, all of the above are German (at least based on a partly auto-bigraphical novel by a German soldier and/or German co-operation); you'll have a hard time finding a German war movie that glorifies Germans and vilifies the enemy. Also strangely enough, Germany is the only country that has ever taken any real responsibility for the world wars, and still has a sense of national guilt, even though there were plenty of other nations who were at least as guilty in what happened as Germany. -
mastholte — 15 years ago(July 31, 2010 11:32 PM)
strangely enough, Germany is the only country that has ever taken any real responsibility for the world wars
He, who started, has taken, what's strange about it? Or did you mean that, in this world, it's rather strange to get a square deal? In that case, I agree. Stranger still it would be if a German liked and defended this Soviet movie or - the strangest of all - really feel, at least for a second, what we, former Soviets, feel about this war, and what those, who suffered that very occupation, felt. -
mastholte — 15 years ago(August 02, 2010 11:13 PM)
Mac_Alain, at least you thought better than contesting the second part of my ugly tirade
Well, I reciprocate by assuring you that there are many Russians today who admire the Nazi ideas or the ideas the Nazi drew from, myself having been under the spell a while. -
noblesse_oblige — 14 years ago(May 11, 2011 10:59 PM)
Yeah, but no. The Nazis were pretty bad; they fully deserve to be reviled and vilified at every possible opportunity.
There were, I'm sure, many Nazis who just followed orders. There were also many others who took pleasure/were indifferent in the pain they caused. Both groups helped to commit some of the greatest atrocities ever seen in human history.
There's no amount of fanciful unicorn wishing or nationalistic pride that will whitewash that away. -
sonofindiandelta — 15 years ago(August 03, 2010 09:34 PM)
Basically shows how women are actually worse when it comes to war and war propaganda since they never are expected to do the heavy lifting, they just think war is icky and disregard it's reality. They probably loved Pearl Harbor though.
I am terrified of Palin winning as she would send this country to war in Iran in a heartbeat -
sophiavladimirovna — 15 years ago(September 20, 2010 12:28 PM)
I'm a woman and this is the finest war film I have ever seen. Well, I am Russian, and I have been brought up in reverent terror of WW2, but still, ladies, wake the hell up! Pearl Harbour is a lie made by the government to control you.
Pretty please, with a cherry on top, clean the beep car. -
DaveHedgehog — 15 years ago(October 27, 2010 08:58 AM)
I'm 19 and female. I didn't like it because it was boring. I generally like war movies and I also generally like 'disturbing' movies. I didn't find it disturbing it all. It was just stupid. Although, I did like the barn scene.
But I should also note that my favourite genres are sci-fi and horror and that probably strips me of any credibility regarding movies such as these
I just blue myself. -
aliza_tvito — 15 years ago(November 04, 2010 07:48 AM)
///I'm not really sure how to explain it.///
Guess you are just overfed with a blockbusters.
Well, it's only the movie, but it's based on that what was
really
happened. Wake up, you're 19 and mature enough.
Thank God, I'm an Atheist! - Luis Bunuel -
DaveHedgehog — 15 years ago(November 05, 2010 09:54 AM)
WTF? I hate blockbusters, why do you think I was watching this movie in the first place?
I meant that I wasn't sure how to explain my feelings during the movie (or lack of). Some movies will connect with me, some won't. And this was one of the latter. It doesn't matter whether it was based on real life, I didn't feel anything at all during the movie. That doesn't mean I don't think war is terrible and I don't feel anything about the real events, just that, I didn't care for the movie. There's those movies where you think 'wow, that sucks for them' and then those movies where you feel total anger towards the people who did that to them and you totally sympathize with the characters. I didn't feel that way at all with this movie. I didn't get any messages or emotions it was trying to portray and therefore I didn't like it. The barn scene was the only scene in which I did feel those emotions.
I just blue myself.
