The door riddle
-
CapnKaos — 10 years ago(April 26, 2015 08:11 PM)
The nearest I can get to some kind of understanding is the phrasing of the question is the key to getting the true answer.
And this is exactly it. It's not that difficult once you think about it.
Instead asking, Which door would the other guy say is the right door?
Right. And then you pick the
other
door. This question always leads you that way because no matter which door is the door to freedom, the answer to your question when phrased like this will always be the door to certain death.
Let's say Door A leads to certain death and Door B leads to freedom. You turn to Guard A and ask him, "what door would your friend say leads to freedom". It doesn't matter if Guard A is a liar or not, he will always point to the door leading to certain death which in this case is Door A. Think about it. If he's a liar, then what door would have Guard B have told you to take? Guard B would say to take Door B but since Guard A is a liar he
lies
and points to Door A.
Same goes for if Guard A only tells the truth. If you were to ask Guard B which door leads to freedom, he would
lie
and again point to Door A. Guard A has told you the truth as to which door the liar would tell you to take. So again you can choose Door B.
Make more sense now? -
Weber4278 — 10 years ago(April 26, 2015 08:30 PM)
I'll try to explain it as easy as possible:
If you ask the liar which door the truthful guard would say leads to the castle, he'd lie and give you the wrong one.
If you ask the truthful guard what door the liar would say leads to the castle, he'd truthfully tell you what the liar would saywhich is a lie.
So no matter what guard you ask (liar or truthful) they'd both give you the lie by default IF you ask them what the other one would say.
Hope this makes sense. -
DrSleepandMrMercedes — 10 years ago(April 26, 2015 09:30 PM)
Both are liars. Neither door leads out of the labyrinth. If Sarah asked the Blue Guard the same question as she asked the Red Guard in the film, he would have said the same thing. I do not know how to simplify the answer, but pretend you are in the film and you asked the guards the same question. Who would you believe, the liar, or the one who only wants you to think the other is a liar to make it appear that they are the truth teller? I hope this makes sense, sorry if it doesn't.
-
hurricanehorton — 10 years ago(June 26, 2015 03:49 AM)
That's the easiest way of looking at it, the way Sarah phrases it
guarantees
that the answer she is given is a lie.
If she asks the guy who is telling the truth what the liar would say, he will repeat the lie. Because that is honestly the answer the liar would give.
If she asks the guy who is lying what the honest door would say, he'd lie and say the opposite.
Either way the answer given is a lie, and she must chose the other door. -
mjn-seifer — 10 years ago(July 13, 2015 06:07 AM)
The door she took is the door to the castle. She fell in a hole because it was simply another obstacle, and only ended up in the oubliette because she chose to go down. Had she asked the hands to take her back up, and out of the hole, she would have been able to keep going. There was only one liar, and she had the correct path - they never said that there would be no traps or anything, Sarah did not ask that. Also, the oubliette was not "certain death" because the hands gave her a choice, so she still had a chance to avoid it, and if she had known to step over that part she could have avoided it herself.
-
fiatlux-1 — 10 years ago(January 11, 2016 08:55 AM)
The door she took is the door to the castle. She fell in a hole because it was simply another obstacle, and only ended up in the oubliette because she chose to go down. Had she asked the hands to take her back up, and out of the hole, she would have been able to keep going. T
Exactly!!!! That was what I always thought too!!!!
That Sarah did NOT make the wrong choice, she made the correct one!
Her error was (inexplicably) choosing to go Down instead of Up.
But even in a way, choosing Down was the right way.since Hoggle was already assigned to get her out of there.
If the Oubliette was only meant to be a trap with no end, why did Jareth send Hoggle there to find her? Jareth could have just left Sarah there.
There had to be some way out that Sarah could have found.
I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush. -
samhmd-7489 — 10 years ago(June 27, 2015 09:50 AM)
The best question is to just ask "Okay, what would the other door say if I asked which way to go?"
Reasoning: If the honest door answers, he'll say "Well, the other guy would've lied to you."
If he's the one that lies, then he'll say "Take this way." which clearly is the one you DON'T want to go through. -
Pandoraa — 10 years ago(August 27, 2015 11:32 PM)
Gys, guys. All this assumes that 'one of them always tells the truth and one of them always lies'.
Sarah's mistake was in taking the veracity of that statement for granted. If what the goblin said was true, than he just outed himself as the truthful one. If it wasn't true, she may as well have flipped a coin.
I suppose a smaller-caliber gun would have to fire baby teeth. -
MarblesLove — 10 years ago(August 30, 2015 08:01 PM)
I actually thought that the last time I watched this. If "one of them always tells the truth and one of them always lies" is a true statement then the guard who said it is obviously the one who always tells the truth.
Once upon a time there was a magical place where it never rained. The end. -
mjn-seifer — 10 years ago(September 02, 2015 11:03 AM)
That bit does kind of mess it up, slightly. I guess they mean only when they're asked questions, they have a rule of always lying and always telling the truth, but they are still allowed to speak truthfully when explaining the rules (though, it would be even sillier if the truth-teller was the one who explained it). I thought that when I watched it at one point - I think to save explaining this they should have had the lower guards explain the rules - they aren't part of the rules, and don't know the way to the castle, but they would know that the other two either lie or tell the truth.
-
hurricanehorton — 10 years ago(September 07, 2015 01:22 AM)
That messes it up. Because if the guy who said; "One of us always tells the truth, and the other always lies" is a lie, then there's no point at all to what they're doing. Might as well just guess.
I think the assumption is that, the rules of the game are given honestly by both doors BUT every other statement follows the rules of one is honest and is dishonest.
Really, I think it's just something writer's of the film didn't consider when inserting the scene. And if they had, they'd have perhaps had another character explain the rules of the game, or given her advice as to what to do if she met the doors. It's a fairly minor quibble really. As said, just assume the rules to the game are as seen. -
holtor — 10 years ago(February 06, 2016 12:07 PM)
It's a fairly minor quibble really.
I do not think so. This is supposed to be a logical puzzle, and the writers messed it up. The way they did it, it has only an apparent resemblance to the well-known puzzle. The (somewhat ridiculous) assumption in the riddle is that the characters indeed behave in that extreme way to always lie/tell the truth. That assumption is artificial enough, it does not help to make it murky by quietly assuming additional rules.
The way it is, you can only deduce that both characters do not always tell the truth. Because they both agree on the rules, when the red one starts explaining them. Thus it cannot be that one of them always lies and the other one always tells the truth. But that it exactly what the blue one than says: Always. And the red one nods to it, which makes it even worse.
So basically she is screwed. Obviously she did not chose the path to certain death though, which was a stroke of luck.