This is way better than Saving Private Ryan
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Platoon
Hendry_William_French — 9 years ago(August 06, 2016 11:57 AM)
I hear a lot of people saying that Saving Private Ryan was a better war movie than Platoon. No way. I'm guessing it's because SPR has a bigger scale and bigger action scenes thanks to a much bigger budget, but that doesn't make it better than this.
The main difference between Platoon and SPR is that the characters in this movie felt real - they were more humanized and therefore likeable and relatable. The characters in SPR are like caricatures or stereotypes - they're so corny. Every line they speak is a clich and full of forced acting. The story is so friggin melodramatic & schmaltzy in SPR. Platoon, on the other hand, just wanted to tell a basic story of the life of a soldier in Vietnam, caught between two warring sergeants, just trying to make it through. No cheesy bull$hit about saving the last brother.
When the characters speak in Platoon, they feel authentic their dialogue feels authentic. They're real people with real personalities and feelings and you really get to know them and care about them. This is because Platoon's script is much better than SPR's, and the quality of the acting is much better. Stone directs them based on first hand knowledge of how grunts in Nam acted and conducted themselves - their battle tactics & formations etc, and it shows big time. It's fantastic to watch.
The jungle setting also feels real and is like a character in itself. Oliver Stone, having fought in Vietnam, adds so much because he knew how to make it feel like you were really right there with them in the humid jungle.
Check out John Milius' comments on why SPR is such an overrated war movie, he really nails its shortcomings, including the unlikable characters. He also mentions Oliver Stone:
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2003/05/07/an-interview-with-john-milius?page=5
In private Ryan, there was a horrible scene where Matt Damon starts talking about something they did to an ugly girl, and how ugly this girl was that they were all screwing or something, and right there, you just say, "Why'd these guys come over like this to save this little creep?" Just put him out there and let the tanks run over him. Sacrifice him to the Panzer God right now
Steven wanted me to come over and shoot second unit on Private Ryan and fix the script and everything. I just didn't want to do any of that I said, "This is a bad thing. This is a gimmick film." Which is the worst part of it, because he likes gimmick films. He loves gimmicks, and he makes very good gimmicks. He's very good at making gimmick films
Well the other thing that's a big hole that I heard Colin Powell commented on when he looked at it at the end when that battle is taking place, he said, "Blow the bridge and leave, fellas." Yeah, and as Oliver (Stone) told me, he said that Tom Hanks had told him, "This is the decent thing to do, to stay and hold this bridge." He (Stone) said, "I wouldn't have waited until he turned his back and got into the jungle to frag him; I'd have just shot him right there."
He said part of it was he'd have shot him because he was Tom Hanks. I think Oliver just would like to shoot Tom Hanks anyway, just to see which way he'd fall. I think that the other thing was the ridiculousness of it; they're holding this bridge against the beep Panzer regiment, or something? I mean, these guys have M1s. They've got rifles. They're going to hold this bridge against the Panzer regiment? That's just nuts.
Imdb message boards - kick someone's ass on the first day, or become someone's bitch. -
haynese_98 — 9 years ago(August 06, 2016 01:00 PM)
I thought SPR was good for the first 10 minutes and then so-so to awful for the rest. Platoon is great from the very first shot all the way to the very last shot.
Platoon is an iconic movie for the ages, maybe the G.O.A.T. that even the academy voters couldn't turn down.
Shall we play a game? -
Hendry_William_French — 9 years ago(August 09, 2016 10:10 AM)
I like them both but platoon better. The worst war movie ive ever seen is black hawk down.
BHD is head ache inducing, it's basically like watching a 90 minute battle scene. It's so boring.
Go watch Casualties of War and get back to me on that.
Haha, that film is really bad. Not just as a war movie, but as a movie altogether.
Imdb message boards - kick someone's ass on the first day, or become someone's bitch. -
Hendry_William_French — 9 years ago(August 31, 2016 09:00 PM)
Ok, maybe I was a bit harsh. It's not
that
bad. I loved Casualties of War when I was in high school, it was one of my favorite movies but I couldn't get through it upon reviewing recently. What I didn't like was the sloppy dialogue and major overacting (something I've learned that Brian De Palma movies are notorious for). The music score is laughably melodramatic and overblown, and the film itself is far too overbearing, in your face and thus ugly in its message. It's a depressing film with not that much rhyme or reason.
What I will say is that the location shooting and cinematography in Casualties Of War is just spectacular, really breathtaking. It's a great looking movie. Some of the action scenes are okay, too. But compared to something like Platoon, it feels amateur.
Commence Operation Vacu-suck -
Badlands1 — 9 years ago(August 10, 2016 06:47 PM)
I think mainly because Platoon is an anit-war movie, SPR is a pro war US flag waver, and Spielberg spoon feeds the emotion. Platoon seemed to flow like reality does, it's almost like a documentary. SPR clearly feels like an acted out Hollywood movie
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kmags84 — 9 years ago(August 24, 2016 12:05 AM)
SPR represents a Certain Time in the US, when Patriotism ran deep. Even if something was questionable, it was your "Duty to be an American" etc
Platoon was the Polar Opposite. It's as Anti-War as they come, full of Stones Liberal Idealism BUT, it is very realistic. The day to day of the Soldiers Life and the Counter Culture peeling away at that BLIND Patriotism. I may disagree with 99% of Stones politics but he got it right in the film.
To go a step further, Apocalypse Now, The Thin Red Line and Full Metal Jacket are both Superior to this. Casualties of War might be the worst of them all. I'd even say Hamburger Hill is better than most, I think it's right up there with Platoon in that next tier. -
Hendry_William_French — 9 years ago(August 31, 2016 09:03 PM)
SPR represents a Certain Time in the US, when Patriotism ran deep. Even if something was questionable, it was your "Duty to be an American" etc
Platoon was the Polar Opposite. It's as Anti-War as they come, full of Stones Liberal Idealism BUT, it is very realistic. The day to day of the Soldiers Life and the Counter Culture peeling away at that BLIND Patriotism. I may disagree with 99% of Stones politics but he got it right in the film.
Well said, Kmags
I always like hearing what you have to say. We have similar tastes
Commence Operation Vacu-suck -
Badlands1 — 9 years ago(January 03, 2017 02:09 PM)
Apocalypse Now, and FMJ were not superior to Platoon. AN is an art movie not realistic, a fat 300lbs Colonel living undefeated from the NVA in hostile Cambodia?
FMJ is a boot camp movie, they never made it into the jungle, it was shot in cold England, in a 6-7 story warehouse district while, Hue was a lush tropical 2-3 story city. Kubrick and Coppola both never had planned endings and they fail.
R Lee Ermey was so disappointment in Kubricks direction he made his own nam flick Siege Of Firebase Gloria, much more realistic. -
degree7 — 9 years ago(September 24, 2016 09:06 PM)
I totally understand why people don't like SPR. The script is pretty flawed in some ways, there are definitely corny moments in there. However, it's hard to deny the ifluence that SPR has had on its depiction of war in cinema. It truly was probably the first technically realistic, boots on the ground depiction of warfare. The opening scene had veterans seeking therapy due to the traumatic memories it brought back. The way the film is shot, handheld, with the filter removed to give it that grainy quality, was a brilliant move on Kaminski's part. The sound design is also fantastic, the way the bullets and bombs sound so frightening. The sound of the Tiger tanks approaching is equivalent to the bass notes in Jaws Terrifying. The film also has an excellent cast, I would be lying if I didn't tear up when half of them buy the farm in brutal ways.
However, it's true that it lacks the character and thematic depth that Platoon has. Whereas Stone's film had a miniscule budget and technical limitations in comparison. I think the perfect war film is a combination of the two
~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here. -
Hendry_William_French — 9 years ago(October 16, 2016 07:13 AM)
It truly was probably the first technically realistic, boots on the ground depiction of warfare. The opening scene had veterans seeking therapy due to the traumatic memories it brought back. The way the film is shot, handheld, with the filter removed to give it that grainy quality, was a brilliant move on Kaminski's part. The sound design is also fantastic, the way the bullets and bombs sound so frightening. The sound of the Tiger tanks approaching is equivalent to the bass notes in Jaws Terrifying. The film also has an excellent cast, I would be lying if I didn't tear up when half of them buy the farm in brutal ways.
Well said! Yep, SPR is a technical marvel. Its realistic battle scenes & cinematography are unparalleled in cinema.
However, I think no matter how good the technical aspects of a film are, it just doesn't stand up if the human side doesn't work.
Matt Damon's story about watching his brother having sex in a barn just sums up how awkward the film's script & characterization is. That scene where Hanks tells everyone he's a teacher just makes me want to puke. The character of Upham is basically a human Jar Jar Binks.
Spielberg just forgot about subtlety after the 80s. His films became overwrought and melodramatic. Even the battle scenes couldn't save SPR. It was a cheesefest from start to finish.
Does Barry Manilow know that you raid his wardrobe? -
Kojiro_Vance — 9 years ago(December 25, 2016 03:16 AM)
Agreed 100 %
Platoon is a masterpiece. The ultimate Vietnam movie, with Full Metal Jacket being number 2.
Saving Private Ryan is a crowdpleaser (yes, despite it's horrific opening scene), made by a director known for making crowdpleasers. The double meanings and symbolism in the movie are so Hollywood, it makes me wanna throw up.
Platoon on the other hand has no hidden messages (except maybe the Christ metaphor for Elias). It's a straightforward story about a guy fighting in the Vietnam war in a platoon with two camps.
Schindler's List should have been Spielberg's only WW2 movie.
I'm just on my way up to Clavius.