Did Elsa deliberately choose a false cup?
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Chris12955 — 9 years ago(May 01, 2016 02:15 PM)
I think Spielberg wanted it to be intentional. Elsa quickly picks the gaudiest cup there is and hands it to Donovan with a big smile on her face. As soon as he stops looking she turns slightly to Indy and her grin turns to a stern serious expression. When Elsa next look at Donovan she has a smile on her face again. She only started to look shocked and then horrified after he started to rapidly age, then rot all while firmly holding her(yuck!) No wonder she was horrified. I suspect she was expecting him to simply Keel over and die, not that.
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Maddyclassicfilms — 9 years ago(June 12, 2016 12:08 PM)
I think she did choose the wrong one deliberately. Notice she picks the most magnificent for him, then during Indy's choice she says "it would not be made out of gold". Sure it was deliberate.
Go to bed Frank or this is going to get ugly
. -
Karl Aksel — 9 years ago(September 10, 2016 09:50 AM)
I think she did choose the wrong one deliberately. Notice she picks the most magnificent for him, then during Indy's choice she says "it would not be made out of gold". Sure it was deliberate.
That comment could also easily mean, "I was wrong, it would not be made out of gold". That's certainly the
tone
with which she said it. From the very first time I saw this movie, the camera focusing on her smirk as Donovan first feels pain led me to believe that she knew. However, her comment that the grail would not be made out of gold is precisely what made it ambiguous for me. Like she only
now
knew it would not be made out of gold. She would have no reason to educate Indy on this, after all, and she was just the sort of person who would think the grail would be made of gold anyway. And the tone with which she speaks the words indicates that she acknowledges that she had been mistaken.
That's how I always interpreted it, anyway. -
the1armedman — 9 years ago(June 16, 2016 09:48 PM)
Yes, it's fairly obvious that she wanted to kill Donovan. Not only as others have said she knew it wouldn't be made of gold, but the look on her face when she gives it to Donovan and he drinks.
And also it seems the only one who listened to the knight in the first place was Indy. Donovan didn't seem to understand the consequences and Elsa that you can't remove the grail from the temple. -
jajceboy — 9 years ago(June 22, 2016 05:06 PM)
I never saw any ambiguity in the scene. Elsa knew what she was doing. She knew she gave him the wrong cup but wasn't ready for the consequences of it. That's why she looked shocked.
As a historian/ art lover she knew enough to know how the cup didn't look like, and gave Donovan the shiniest one. -
Blueghost — 9 years ago(November 13, 2016 07:38 PM)
by westward7 Sat Mar 19 2016 13:19:22
IMDb member since May 2009
I've rewatched that scene in the grail room several times and am not sure if Elsa genuinely believed that the chalice she selected was the true grail. It seemed like she didn't put that much thought into her choice. Did she purposely want Donovan to die?
Did you not hear her say "It would not be made of gold." After Donavan died and both she and Indy turned to look for the real cup? -
Karl Aksel — 9 years ago(November 14, 2016 03:51 AM)
Did you not hear her say "It would not be made of gold." After Donavan died and both she and Indy turned to look for the real cup?
I'm not sure what that means to you, but to me that means she did not realise before. -
Karl Aksel — 9 years ago(November 14, 2016 02:55 PM)
No dude, she knew, which is why she said what she said.
That doesn't make any sense. She said it as if it were a realisation, as if saying "I was wrong". If she already knew, she'd have no reason for saying it. However, if she
didn't
know beforehand, she would have every reason for saying it. If she hadn't said it, I would have believed quite firmly that she knew beforehand. But the fact that she said it is what puts me on the fence. -
Blueghost — 9 years ago(November 15, 2016 05:57 AM)
Er, no she didn't. She even told Indy that she didn't believe in the nazi cause.
Why did she pick the one she did? Because she didn't know and didn't care, and as much as she wanted the grail she also wanted to help Indy, and her ex-lover who Donovan shot, Indy's dad. -
Karl Aksel — 9 years ago(November 15, 2016 08:25 AM)
Er, no she didn't. She even told Indy that she didn't believe in the nazi cause.
So? Neither did Donovan. He even told Indy as much when
he
, Donovan, was holding the gun.
Why did she pick the one she did? Because she didn't know and didn't care, and as much as she wanted the grail she also wanted to help Indy, and her ex-lover who Donovan shot, Indy's dad.
I agree - but "it would not be made out of gold" does not suggest this. Well, it
does
suggest she didn't know
before
she picked the grail, because from the tone of her voice the line might as well have been "I was mistaken". She has no reason to give this "hot tip" to Indy, the archaeology professor who witnessed the same thing she did and who had considerably more expertise in the area (in spite of Henry Sr. being the grail scholar).