Oliver was a Terrible husband to Barbara
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Parsley_Mostly — 13 years ago(October 06, 2012 08:53 PM)
That's interesting what you say, because I had the same reaction: when I was younger I was team Oliver, and now I'm older I am totally team Barbara. I understand how she hardened toward him and why. And I love that they don't spell it out, because it's something that is completely recognizable to someone who's been there, and still utterly foreign to someone who hasn't been. Which is how people sympathize with Oliver. Life experience totally colors one's view of this film, and again like you, I've held two opposing views about the same film based on life experience. God, such a great film.
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sane1216 — 14 years ago(August 13, 2011 01:30 AM)
While I agree that he wasn't all that great of a husband, he is not the sole reason for the marriage falling apart.
- She did not complain when his long hours and career driven work ethic gave her the money to refurnish and upgrade the house.
- The issues did not arise until she became bored due to her previous duties (upgrading the house, taking care of the kids, keeping the house) were now complete.
In response to the original posts comments. - She was carrying on and did not realize the dinner party was not paying attention to her story. My wife corrects me sometimes when I mispronounce words in front of guest or get a piece of a story wrong. I do not consider it belittling me, yet when a man does it to a woman it's degrading her some how? Plus after that part of the story line they made up and Oliver apologize in his own way and Barbara accepted it. That was not the catalyst for the divorce, it was when he carelessly killed the fly while reading her contract and with her contract.
2)He did not dismiss her idea. I think he was kind of confused about it. He was making all the money and didn't understand. Had he dismissed it he would have told her not to do it. He even went as far as suggest she hire a housekeeper to help her with house duties so she could engulf herself in her business. I would have agreed if you said he didn't show any interest in it. - I don't think this is fair. They were at the boiling point at this junction in the story line. Oliver just reached the limit before Barbara. I could argue her antics were also shown to spill into his work when his boss asked him to take "time off."
- Again unfair since this was in response to her locking him in the sauna.
- It was an accident. I don't agree with his initial choice to hide it, but the housekeeper hid it also. He finally told her when she confronted him, he could have chosen to lie about it until she figured it out on her own. It was indeed an accident. The point you're missing here is by this junction in the story they were already at one another's throats and common courtesies were out the window.
He never insulted her intelligence or her career. He may not have thought much of her career as I said, but he never insulted it. Despite his opinion of it he attempted to help her although she did not appreciate that help yet she accepted it. (the maid/housekeeper) His correction and cutting her off at the dinner party was not insulting her intelligence. I thought he did it tactfully and without disrespect to her. You obviously did not see the entire dinner party (WOMEN INCLUDED) ignoring her drawn out story.
I don't think it was too much to ask for her to tell him why. It would've been nice if she gave him REAL reasons and not just the results of why, "I can't watch you sleep, eat, or be in my presence" were all results of the reason and not the reason. So, of course he would go about thinking it was repairable and confused about the reason. Despite what you thinkfrom his perspective she didn't have a good reason.she didn't tell him.
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deliaw1946 — 14 years ago(September 09, 2011 03:01 PM)
Jayson, embarrassing her at the first dinner by taking over her telling of the story about the crystal. He must have known she wasn't good at that sort of thing, so, like she said, HE should have told story in first place.
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LukeLovesFilm28 — 13 years ago(December 01, 2012 02:48 PM)
Yes. He was being a condescending ass in that moment. And Barbara called him on it.
Guess what, he did admit to his faults at dinner. They laughed about it. They didn't try to kill each other.
However, I think, with everything else, before and after, they were less and less honest with themselves. They got too obsessed with working. Barbara worked her ass off to fix up that great, big house. Oliver worked his ass off to keep that house and put food on the table. I think they just stopped talking. Being a shut-in, Barbara has more time to think. Her hatred festered. Oliver was probably going through the motions at home, get work taken care of easily. He was blind to her unhappiness. But, it doesn't help if she's not saying anything like she did after that dinner. That was her real, strong and independent personality, as we see later, shining through. She was willing to listen to him. He was willing to listen to her. And they got along great. -
Darkfalz1979 — 13 years ago(October 01, 2012 09:55 AM)
What you don't get is this is the normal, natural dynamic that develops in a relationship when one person is the bread winner and the other is a dependent (believe it or not, irrespective of which gender is which). There can never be full reciprocity and respect for each other's roles.
If you don't want it, either don't be a gold digger or get an excellent pre-nup. -
jasonlivesagain — 13 years ago(October 21, 2012 02:16 AM)
Actually, I don't think she's totally asinine for demanding a divorce. If I were Oliver, I'd have given it to her, then laid out criminal charges; multiple counts of assault and attempted murder.
He is self-centered, distant, narcissistic and a jerk, but none of those attributes are any real reason to fault him for starting the entire mess. In fact, despite those qualities, there isn't any reason for us to believe he is a malicious person, or intentionally goes out of his way to harm people. On the other hand, Barbara assaults him multiple times and locks him in a sauna to the point of near-death, runs over his car while he's in it in a monster truck, lays the "I killed your dog" bit on him, smashes his property, and countless other acts of maliciousness. He, on other hand, while a bit ignorant, has no intention of hurting her, and even writes a letter in what he believes are his final moments expressing his love for her; a letter which she attempts to use against him.
Yes, he ran over her cat in an ACCIDENT. Yes he ruined her dinner, AFTER having been the subject and victim of numerous counts of assault, battery, attempted murder, you name it. Yes, he's an a-hole. Yes, he's distant. Yes, he's self-centered. But if that justifies assault and attempted murder in your book, then I'm glad you're not a lawmaker.
Oh, and pal, some people just aren't good at getting the signals. We're not all psychics, mind-readers or experts in body language. This is especially true for people like Oliver, who are, as you say, narcissistic and too self-centered. Instead of playing these stupid games, she should have flat out told him what was up, which she did, but long after. It's funny how you'll use the feminist argument about how the man should just KNOW and understand why she wants a divorce, but you won't acknowledge that as a woman she didn't have to endure two decades of, what she perceived, as a bad marriage.
She's not only a cold-hearted b!tch, she's vitriolic, irrational and irrationally-hateful, and she should be in prison, much less in a marriage. Being a "terrible husband", as you call him (without cheating on or beating her), doesn't justify being a victim of domestic violence, the victim of multiple counts of assault, battery and attempted murder. -
LukeLovesFilm28 — 13 years ago(December 01, 2012 02:59 PM)
I'm watching the film right now.
I can really see where she's coming from and vice versa.
But, Oliver shows Benny, the family dog more love and affection than Barbara or their children. That is a major thing in a relationship. His perspective is very much like Cal's in Titanic. He thinks it's her duty to be this way, act this way, because that's her role. That's all she is to him. And, I totally understand why it is so easy for a man to get like that. When someone, a woman for instance devotes their time and energy to making you happy, you can't help but feel blindly overwhelmed. By the way, it doesn't make her a slave if it's her choice.
But, like I've said in other posts already, they were talking less and less, trusting each other, less and less. He was becoming more trusting with his co-workers than his wife. When they were talking about his attitude at dinner, they laughed about it. He was accommodating. There was hope for them. -
LukeLovesFilm28 — 13 years ago(December 01, 2012 02:40 PM)
"Insulting someone's intelligence & Insulting their career is grounds for divorce in my book. The fact that Oliver COULD NOT understand why Barbara wanted a divorce was even more atrocious, and it explains why Barbara would not give him a reason. He was too aloof to know."
Right there, you're cutting Oliver off at the knees without understanding his reasons for being the way he was. That's not helpful.
That's like so many people today. You say one thing and that illustrates your entire personality?? And then, some irrational woman refuses to see that guy anymore. It's irrational and childish.
Because we're all human. We all make mistakes. But, it's really WRONG to demand that you can't make ONE mistake.
Oliver not understanding why she wanted a divorce is not atrocious. She dedicated so much of her life to making him so blindly happy, he can't see straight when the truth is hitting him in the face or squeezing his hips. Him not understanding her reasons, is just gonna happen. It's a natural response to her actions.
Teasing about killing and cooking the family dog is a little more offensive to me. -
LukeLovesFilm28 — 11 years ago(November 14, 2014 02:13 AM)
Yeah. Let's turn the tables here. People don't do that often enough today.
I'm sure a wife - who has dedicated her life to providing happiness to her husband and family would love it if she learned that her husband didn't want to come to see her at the hospital after she fell or had a possible heart attack. And when the husband says, "I was filled with relief when I thought you were dead," I'm sure the wife would not be overjoyed. In fact, I KNOW the wife would either be inconsolable or really pissed. Oliver's choice was to get really pissed. -
06986 — 10 years ago(July 23, 2015 10:00 PM)
OP is completely wrong, I just watched the movie again and it was even more clear that the wife was just awful, mean, vindictive, had mental issues, it was basically all her and the husband did not deserve her viciousness. Most men at times are inattentive and focus a little too much on a hobby, career, themselves, but in no way does that deserve the way she acted towards him. The Douglas character was not nasty to her, he was just a little insensitive when the wife was struggling like with the story. Nothing the Michael Douglas character came close to deserving to be treated the way he was by the wife even before he thought he was having a heart attack and they agreed to a divorce. The not going to see him was just cold and heartless and more or less indicative of mental issues. The way the wife acted is a clear case of severe mental issues/depression that had nothing with her husband.
-Look at the way she teases and treats the husbands dog
-She sneers at Douglas just for the way he laughs
-She throws a tantrum and turns on all the appliances when Douglas is trying to talk to a client.
-She smacks him in the face with her contract and then when the husband was playing around and initiating sex she puts him in a leg lock to injure him.
-When she finds out her husband may be in serious medical trouble and then is doing better she never bothers to go and be with him at the hospital and is happy at the thought of him being dead and no longer in her life.
-She then plugs his nose when he is trying to sleep in order to wake him/maybe kill him and then tells him she wished he was dead, does not love him, and wants a divorce, then when he rightfully keeps asking her why and what her problem is she socks him in the face drawing blood.
-She then uses a letter he wrote to her thinking he was going to die just so she can get the house in a divorce.
After all this is when Michael Douglas starts getting back at her but still he wants to make amends with her, still tries at times to be civil with her while she is absolutely miserable, he still tells her he loves her and even after she tries to kill him that he thinks she looks great where she just says she wants him out of the house and makes him believe she killed his dog and made patte of it.
She is absolutely rotten to the core and the husband did not deserve any of her venom. -
lrdcharlton — 10 years ago(July 26, 2015 12:32 PM)
I wholeheartly agree with you, I cannot fathom how anyone could say he was worse than she was or that there wass equal blame. So, what she does for twenty years is sit and seeth about minor things her husband does and does not say anything about it. To me, it seemed like she was jealous that he was successful in something outside the home while she spent most of her time caring for the children and decorating the house. If she wanted to have a career in catering she could have started before the kids were grown and she felt unfulfilled. She sat by and internalized everything and allowed it to build to the point she hated him with a passion. He had his moments of coming across like a smug jerk but it was never done out of malice or spite.She is the one at fault for not doing much with her life and sitting by silently, while he ignorantly went on doing things she did not like. Most o the things she did were low and spitful. He killed her cat accidently because she wouldnt give him any sleep aid, so she locks him in a sauna. She violently attacks him unprovocked, several times. She was an overall B#tch if you ask me. Oliver did have his faults, like thinking he was right about everything and turning out to be wrong, ocassionally downplaying her hopes for her career and stooping down to her level when things went wrong during the separation and divorece. But I do not think he would have done those things if she acted like a reasonable adult. It was also her fault she didnt get the house.
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LukeLovesFilm28 — 10 years ago(December 06, 2015 01:47 PM)
Unfortunately, I think this movie has a lot more relevance today than it did in the '80s. I think relationships between men and women are reaching a massive breaking point. I mean, Danny DeVito and his wife, Rhea Perlman recently broke up. If they can't stay together, I worry that no one can. People should watch this movie and try to learn a thing or two about communication, tolerance, acceptance, compassion, love, etc.