Silence… or Se7en?
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FrankBooth_DeLarge — 9 years ago(November 10, 2016 03:27 PM)
I love both films almost equally, but I will give a slight edge to Silence of the Lambs.
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pistrix — 9 years ago(November 10, 2016 04:12 PM)
Silence fan through and through. I did like Se7en, as I think Kevin Spacey is a great actor. I just did not like Se7en the same way I love Silence.
Unfortunately, I just cannot stand Paltrow.
((Damn the remakes, Save the originals.)) -
NEUTRlNO — 9 years ago(December 01, 2016 10:30 AM)
I like Se7en, but mainly because Fincher is a consummate visual stylist, a virtuoso. He never makes an unwatchable movie.
For example, I found the premise of "Panic Room," to be completely oblique and hard to relate to (unless I summer in the Hamptons and golf with Donald Trump), yet Fincher forced me to like the contrived nature of it (a daughter stuck in a vault who needs insulin shots, with no mini-fridge, of course; and a cell phone that can't get a signal within its walls good design and planning, lol) by making engrossing entertainment.
Se7en is an appetizer before the entree, and "Fight Club" is Fincher's main course statement piece.
But I don't think Se7en is in the same league as Silence, despite - or in spite of - the IMDB rankings (Let's get rid of this 20th century art-house trash and make room for another comic book movie, you guys! This one crammed at least 20 superheroes onto the screen at once! Screw Kieslowski, Kubrick and Kurosawa. That's only one letter of the alphabet, I know, but Nolan is one of the Top 3 / 5 directors of all time - living or dead - according to IMDB!) The latter has depth, psychology, and something meaningful to say.
Silence is like the host of the house party who takes you to a comfortable sofa in a quiet corner and asks about what you're going to do with your life after college, how you are handling your painful breakup after a 5 year relationship, or how you are dealing with your parents' divorce. He cracks a light-hearted joke or two so you laugh instead of cry over the uncertainty and doom and gloom.
It could have been all about him that night - in a series of superficial meet and greets - but for a while, he made it about you.
He is so charming, cool, genuinely concerned for your well-being by making a human connection.
Se7en is more like the younger brother of the host, who is envious of all the attention that his sophisticated, older, first-born sibling is getting. They both have the same values passed down from the parents, they both went to the same schools, they both majored in the same thing at college, and they both want to get into the same line of work.
Se7en is a bit insecure, and has to prove himself by over-compensating and acting like a flashy douchebag at the party and is now getting increasingly blackout drunk. Se7en, naturally, is going to invite some of his best friends: "The Usual Suspects," "The Sixth Sense," "Inception," "The Prestige," and "Now You See Me" (all interesting movies, a few very fine / original even, but of the same "You Might Also Enjoy" vein for me.)
Despite surface appearances, Se7en actually has less in common with his older brother Silence and more in common with the squad of his best friends.
They all stand around at the party being smug, trying to out-do and smugly impress each other with parlour tricks, gimmicks and loud spectacles. They need to make sure everyone in the room knows just how clever they are. Look at me, LoOk aT Me, LOOK AT ME!!!! I'M SO CLEVER YOUR BRAIN IS GONNA 'SPLODE!!! NO, I'M MORE CLEVER! TELL UR FRIENDS!
There's a fine line between the kind of clever presenting a mind-frackery that feels organic to the raison d'etre or core story (The Matrix and its world physics, Eternal Sunshine, Memento for the most part) and the kind of clever that self-consciously draws attention to itself, to its director / auteur, and to the way the screenplays were artificially constructed by their respective writer(s).
When Starling found an auspicious resolution to her problems, I was happy for her. A poignant end.
Now, this may be a consequence of unconvincing acting from Pitt / Spacey / Paltrow, but in contrast, when
Paltrow's head was in a box or whatever
, I remained unmoved. It was kind of cool that Spacey's smug character
got his way and made his point.
I'm still mad that Paltrow's trifle of a role in "Shakespeare in Love" that year robbed Cate Blanchett's "Elizabeth" that was so well-acted it felt, at times, like a sumptuously shot documentary.
Some industry big shots and GOOP "haters" may have suppressed a giggle and found it delightful that in "Contagion,"
Paltrow dies again and has an autopsy scene that is hardly glamorous.
Also, Se7en came out after Silence. I feel that the genesis of the spec screenplay ("Stop the serial killer, and, oh btw, in real life, serial killers have intelligence levels that fall on a averaged out bell curve like the rest of us, but a character who isn't nice in this movie just so happens to have a high IQ and is out to mess with someone else's head I just came up with that on the spot, y'all") was influenced by the buzz of industry insiders, bestseller book lists, and Silence being shopped around years before that. It feels SO OBVIOUSLY derivative.
To me, Se7en just shoehorned Kevin Spacey (who, in "The Usual Suspects,"
smugly plays the smartest guy in the room
and in Se7en he
smugly plays the smartest guy in the room again
) into a proven formula (the skeletal outline of S -
looker7 — 9 years ago(December 02, 2016 08:27 AM)
by NEUTRlNO (Thu Dec 1 2016 10:30:13)
Post Edited: Fri Dec 2 2016 07:42:20
"I like Se7en, but mainly because Fincher is a consummate visual stylist, a virtuoso. He never makes an unwatchable movie.
For example, I found the premise to "Panic Room" completely oblique and hard to relate to (unless I summer in the Hamptons and golf with Donald Trump), yet Fincher forced me to like the contrived nature of it (a daughter stuck in a vault who needs insulin shots, of course; and a cell phone that can't get a signal within its walls good design and planning, lol) by making engrossing entertainment.
Se7en is an appetizer before the entree, and "Fight Club" is Fincher's main course statement piece.
But I don't think Se7en is in the same league as Silence, despite - or in spite of - the IMDB rankings (Let's get rid of this 20th century art-house trash and make room for another comic book movie, you guys! This one crammed at least 20 superheroes onto the screen at once!) The latter has depth, psychology, and something meaningful to say.
Se7en is more like a flashy douchebag who wants to throw a party. That douchebague is, of naturally, going to invite some of his best friends: "The Usual Suspects," "The Sixth Sense," "Memento," "Inception," and "Now You See Me" (all interesting movies, some of them very fine even, but of the same "You Might Also Enjoy" vein for me.)
They all stand around at the party being smug, trying to out-do and smugly impress each other with parlour tricks and loud spectacles. They need to make sure everyone in the room knows just how clever they are. Look at me, LoOk aT Me, LOOK AT ME!!!! I'M SO CLEVER YOUR BRAIN IS GONNA 'SPLODE!!!
There's a fine line between being clever and presenting mind-frackery that feels organic to the raison d'etre or core story (The Matrix) and then there's the kind of clever that self-consciously draws attention to itself and to the way the screenplays were constructed by its writer(s).
When Starling found a happy resolution to her problems, I was happy for her.
Now, this may be a consequence of unconvincing acting from Pitt / Spacey / Paltrow , but when , I felt nothing. It was kind of cool that Spacey's smug character got his way.
In fact, some industry big shots and GOOP "haters" probably suppressed a giggle and were happy that in "Contagion,"
Also, Se7en came out after Silence. I feel that the genesis of the spec screenplay ("stop the serial killer") was influenced by the buzz of industry insiders, bestseller books lists, and Silence being shopped around years before that. It feels derivative.
Silence = iPhone 3G, iOS, Facebook status, Amazon Echo Se7en = Galaxy S, Android, Twitter, Google Home. With A Stylish Twist!
After Silence, I doubt any other movie centred around a serial killer procedural will ever again win any combination of Best Picture, Best Actor, Best Actress, Best Director, and Best Screenplay - let alone all at once. (I hardly take the Oscars as a year-to-year barometer for cinematic quality, but securing the Big 4/5 is a monumental feat for any film, let alone a thriller / horror genre piece.)
And in 50 years' time, I predict that Silence will be the first (and only ?) serial killer movie academics, film students, and couch potato streamers will reach for. It has been the apotheosis of the sub-genre for decades already. The bar was set really high."
Good post. Nice comparisons and analogies. I agree with what you've said here, for the most part.
Both are well made and highly entertaining films, but, as highlighted by NEUTR1O, I think that TSOTL is the superior film on almost every aspect and level; the only thing I'd give 'Seven' is its cinematography and visual style (the bleached, scratched stock really gave the film a unique sombre green and brown tint paradoxically, a pristine, immaculate, brilliant dullness which really enhanced the the feeling of inescapable chaos and sin; it magnified the feeling of unease and bleakness). -
AnthonySocksss — 1 year ago(August 05, 2024 06:25 AM)
lol it’s not even close, Lambs is far superior. Se7en is tiresome on rewatches with its relentless, stylized bleakness that feels like fincher was jerking off to blade runner whenever he went to his trailer.
The characters in se7en have barely any depth beyond surface cliches and sentimentality (oh, Somerset is the trench coat/fedora wearing, switchblade throwing, “I’m gettin too old for this **** and lost my family, I’m retiring to build a log cabin” disillusioned guy, YAWN). And Mills is just a retarded football player. The only interesting character is John Doe, but he’s also just an archetype, a Machiavellian villain who gets insanely lucky. Lecter, by contrast, is a genius because of the way he calmly works his way into people’s psyches instead of just getting into shouting matches.
There is no scene in Se7en that compares with the emotional final meeting between Lecter and Starling. Silence of the Lambs is as much of a serious psychological drama film as it is a thriller.
Edit: and that doesn’t mean I’m not a fan of the movie Se7en, but SotL is just better overall.
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