She So Purposely Dropped That Ball
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soggybottom — 15 years ago(January 09, 2011 10:01 AM)
At least you can admit it. Most people on these boards can't (although I can't see why whether or not you've met the person should matter when it comes to opening your mind a little bit and taking into consideration other people's ideas)
You're rightNot all things are directly left open to interpretation, but I think this one really is.
Here's a quote for you to think about
Throw her nothing but high ones. She can't hit 'em, and she can't lay off 'em
Why would they have put that in there if they wanted to make is SOOOO clear that she was going to throw the game for her sister? Remember that this was said just three pitches right before the big play. -
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soggybottom — 15 years ago(January 09, 2011 11:19 AM)
I can buy that explanation, but she sure changed her mind in a hurry.
But now can you at least say that it wasn't obvious as you thought? People see things differently, and that's what I like about coming to these boardsTo see ideas that I never thought of before.
The problem I have with these boards is that people are so determined to be right and are so determined that the opposing viewpoint just HAS to be wrong that they never take a second to say "Gee, I never thought of that" because all they want to do is WIN the argument
which is EXACTLY why I have a hard time accepting the fact that Dottie just threw the game. It's human nature to always win, and she was extremely competitive the entire movie.
But I gotta give it to ya MissCarsYou're A LOT better than most people on here. -
MissCars78 — 15 years ago(January 09, 2011 11:33 AM)
I do know what you mean. Forums are full of people so shy in real life that they become loud mouth monsters on the net to make them feel good about themselves. IMDB is full of them. They argue for arguements sake.
Back to the point in hand though - in this case I truly believe that whether it has now become a debate or not it wasn't intended to be by the writers.
Older Dottie at the beginning proves she learnt being competitive & winning wasn't her priority when she tells the older Grandson to let his little brother win the basketball game. It bookends the last bit where she throws the game for her sister.
I must admit I am not a competitive person in general so maybe I'm not the best example but if I knew a loved one could be happy, overcome their demons & enjoy life by me simply being a "loser" just once in my life I would do it in a heartbeat. -
soggybottom — 15 years ago(January 09, 2011 01:07 PM)
I don't know what the writer's intention was, but the way that the final product turned out, it left it wide open for debate.
Yeah, it's obvious that "older Dottie" learned a good lesson there, but did she learn it BEFORE or AFTER the big play?
I can see that you're a good-hearted person who probably wouldn't mind being a "loser" for the right reasons (and that's very admirable of you), but in that big of a game with so much on the line on that one play, I can't see anybody doing it (not even you).
Look at it this way: Had she held onto the ball, the score is STILL tied and game moves on. Kit would still have more opportunities to help her team win. It's not like the game ends right there with Kit being the big loser.
Besides, with how fast things happen in games, I really don't think Dottie had enough time to analyze all of this. In one split second, she going to go from doing everything she could to help her team win to "Oh, but if we win, then Kit's gonna hate me forever, and I'll have to deal with an annoying little sister for the rest of my life who is going to insist on holding a grudge against me and I'll never hear the end of it"
Anyway, I'm talked enough about this. I'm going to go ahead and declare myself the "loser" and you the "winner".
Hell, if it worked for Dottie, maybe it'll work for me. -
jejozi — 13 years ago(February 04, 2013 03:16 PM)
Old Dottie did NOT tell the older grandson, Jeffrey, to let his brother WIN. She told him to "give him a chance to shoot". (I just watched that scene on Netflix to confirm that direct quote.)
Regardless, she dropped the ball on purpose. The force of the collision proves she did. Watch the scene and you'll see Dottie knocked off her feet, but the ball just trickles a couple of inches away from her fingers after her hand hit the ground and laid there for a count. Had the ball been jarred loose because of the hit, it would have gone flying as soon as her hand hit the ground.
I am a competitive person and I couldn't throw a game, let alone a championship. I'm a middle child, between brothers, and we all wanted to beat each other.
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here. -
JaysonT — 14 years ago(May 06, 2011 01:05 AM)
@soggybottom: I really like your interpretation.
In the deleted scenes of the film (on the special edition DVD), extra scenes show how Dottie will do anything to win a game- including knocking out a pregnant teammate to the point of having her need medical attention. Kit even scolds her for "always having to win."
I also think Dottie dropped the ball accidentally. Not only does she say "high fast balls" to the picture, but the split second before Kit knocks into her, Dottie's face is looking scared and unprepared. There's no way in that instant she would be able to say "let me just drop the ball and let this bytch win." No way at all.
PLUS from a storyteller's perspective it doesn't make narrative sense for her to just let Kit win. The point of the story was that Kit was always second fiddle to Dottie. Dottie was better at everything, and Dottie GOT Kit everything (on the train, in the league, etc). The ending was supposed to symbolize Kit getting it on her own. Even the end shows this ("You wanted it more then me, you did what you had to do.") Dottie was not the type to just bow down like that. -
ShizaMinelli — 14 years ago(September 30, 2011 01:46 PM)
In all fairness, a change of heart can happen in a split second, if not sooner. I thought at that moment she decided that her team was worth sacrificing for the sake of her sister. It was selfish, but to me seemed deliberate.
When you're 17 a cow can seem dangerous and forbiddenam I alone here? -
soggybottom — 14 years ago(September 30, 2011 05:56 PM)
A split second? Really?
I guess it depends on how fast of a thinker you are. For me, it takes a few seconds to process any kind of a thought, and of course it would take A LOT longer when making a big decision, like this one, and she really didn't have much time to think between pitches.
That's why I think that the argument works better if you say that she dropped it subconsciously. Because consciously, she wanted to do whatever it took to prove to the team that they needed her back to win, but I can see how someone might reason that deep down inside, she knew that her sister needed it more.
I just can't see with how competitive she was the entire film that she would willingly lose the game on purpose.
And as I've stated many times on this thread, holding onto the ball wouldn't make Kit lose. The game would've remained tied and gone on into extra innings. Kit would have had other opportunities to be the hero WITHOUT any help from her sister. -
ShizaMinelli — 14 years ago(September 30, 2011 06:20 PM)
The split second could have also been the length if time she thought it was a good idea, but it happened at a really crappy time unfortunately. It's just a stab in the dark, though, rewatching today it seemed much more obvious that they wanted it to be ambiguous. It certainly makes for a fun debate though.
When you're 17 a cow can seem dangerous and forbiddenam I alone here? -
soggybottom — 14 years ago(September 30, 2011 09:34 PM)
I totally agree Shiza, and I'm actually a fan of both sides. I think it's interesting if she dropped it on purpose, and it's interesting if she didn't (or somewhere in between)
One of the best arguments for dropping it on purpose (that I haven't seen on this board yet) is the scene where Dottie looks over into the opponents' dugout and sees Kit crying. I think that they were trying to show us that Dottie was starting to care about her little sister's feelings for once, and that may have had some impact on the final play.
I'm sure that the debate will continue on this board for years to come! -
jejozi — 14 years ago(March 30, 2012 08:42 PM)
Plenty of opportunities? How do you figure that? The game could have ended the next inning without Kit coming to the plate again. She'd already been taken out as pitcher after getting rocked, and she may never have gotten to field a ball the rest of the game. Haven't you ever played a game and never had ball hit to you? Have you ever played?
The way it was filmed, she dropped the ball on purpose. It wasn't her hand hitting the ground and the ball flying out, her hand was on the ground and the ball trickles out, rolling less than a foot from her hand. She committed the ultimate sports betrayal.
Oh, and not all of us need to over analyze a situation before making a decision.
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here. -
jejozi — 14 years ago(March 30, 2012 08:03 PM)
You're a piece of work. Bitch and moan about people not being able to see another's point of view, then doing exactly what you're crying about.
This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here. -
acquiesce03 — 15 years ago(January 12, 2011 01:30 PM)
I always used to think that Dottie dropped the ball on purpose. I watched the movie again a couple of days ago, and I'm not sure I think that way anymore. I think that Dottie was extremely ticked off at her sister, and was determined to shut her down UNTIL she saw her freaking out in the dugout. I think that once that happened, she realized it wasn't important. She still played her best, but she wasn't playing with the sole purpose of beating her sister. If she had still been as pissed off as she was at the beginning of the game, I think she would have held on to that ball for dear life just out of spite. Now I just believe what Dottie said at the end: Kit just wanted it more than her.
I do believe that Dottie was happy for Kit, though. I can also understand why people think she dropped it on purpose. The next time I watch it, I may change my mind again.
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soggybottom — 15 years ago(January 12, 2011 02:44 PM)
Thanks Acquiese. That's the best post on this thread yet!
Everything that you said is very thought-provoking and extremely important to the build-up of the climactic play. What was going through her mind? Was she really feeling that bad for her sister? Was she trying as hard as she could to help the team to prove to her coach and her teammates that they were right to let her come back to the team?
She could STILL hang onto the ball, and not make Kit the big loser. The game would've still gone on. I think that had Racine lost because of Kit on that play, people would've had a better argument that Dottie felt so bad for her that she had to throw the game.
I liked talking to MissCarsShe was really nice, but she so was so determined to not budge an inch, and I can't understand why people have to be that way.
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with things being capable of going 2 different ways. People just can't stand to have a shred of doubt about anything, and that's sad.
I think that you can really choose your own ending for this movie. However you want it to be, you're right! What's wrong with that?