Rachel is too good for Ross, Monica (and everyone else) is too good for Chandler the girls have just as many, and I wou
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morganseer — 9 years ago(October 09, 2016 03:22 AM)
I am not saying that this was clear in Rachel's mind or planned, but that if on some level, not necessarily completely conscious
Yes, this is what I wanted from you. And once you realize this part, then you begin to build understanding, even compassion for women like Rachel. Understand that I'm not saying you should be in a relationship with them, though some men know how to handle this behavior better than others. You can walk away, but you'll then be able to do it without a feeling of helplessness or major psychic injury. (That's why I was saying Ross is responsible for his behavior. I meant he has to control the harm done to him, because no one else will.)
We've been talking a lot about Rachel, who of course doesn't have any intent, evil or otherwise, because she's a TV character. But really, we're talking about ourselves, aren't we? I'm admitting to the world here that (hopefully on a much smaller scale) I've done some of the things Rachel did. At first I was totally clueless. I didn't understand why the guys didn't cross the barrier, because I didn't realize I put it there. It took me years to realize I was doing it, and even more years to stop it. IT'S THAT AUTOMATIC. Even after I understood, I'd act before I'd know I was doing it, then regret it and try to fix it. Sometimes it was too late.
So yes, I can have compassion for the Rachels in the world, male or female. And I know how to handle someone who does those things. A little bit of straight talk usually does the trick.
Where I still have a weakness is handling another person's rage. One rageful incident is enough to get me scared out of my wits and never come back. That's why Ross, in spite of his numerous good qualities would be the wrong pick for me. I'm not talking about lower level anger. I'm talking about high intensity rage, such as I see in Ross. I don't think a little bit of straight talk is enough for people who have such rage.
Again, don't misunderstand me. I understand Ross' anger is physically harmless, he never harmed any of the women in his life. I just don't have what it takes to be around it. It raises my discomfort level to a point that being around that person becomes aversive. That doesn't mean I will label him evil or selfish. He's just human, and we humans have many flaws, some of which I can deal with, others I can't. And I'm smart enough to know my limitations.
It's possible that Rachel's behavior is as powerful a trigger for you as Ross' behavior is for me. That's fair too. All I'd like from you is to concede that women like Rachel are not evil, that they don't deliberately try to harm. And I think you may be getting there. -
ppllkk — 9 years ago(October 09, 2016 09:23 AM)
morganseer
wrote:
Yes, this is what I wanted from you. And once you realize this part, then you begin to build understanding, even compassion for women like Rachel.
No, I do not have any understanding of how a decent person could for seven years lead on a person who loves them and cause them a great deal of emotional pain in the process. No, I do not have any compassion for Rachel or women like her.
There is something really wrong with a person who can cause another person who loves them that level of distress over that long a period of time. Rachel saw what this was doing to Ross on a daily basis, and it does not seem to have bothered her.
Understand that I'm not saying you should be in a relationship with them, though some men know how to handle this behavior better than others.
The way to handle women like Rachel is to not love them more than they love you. Actually, the best way to deal with women like Rachel is to not care if they leave or not.
You can walk away,
Sure, but that is very hard to do when you are really in love. Especially hard to do when the person keeps hinting that she may be available. That is what really stinks.
(That's why I was saying Ross is responsible for his behavior. I meant he has to control the harm done to him, because no one else will.)
Yes, certainly, but that does not absolve Rachel of responsibility for utilizing a psychological weakness that Ross has for her own very selfish purposes.
We've been talking a lot about Rachel, who of course doesn't have any intent, evil or otherwise, because she's a TV character.
Characters have intentions, and they are revealed in what the character does.
But really, we're talking about ourselves, aren't we?
I am talking about my sense of how you don't treat someone.
I'm admitting to the world here that (hopefully on a much smaller scale) I've done some of the things Rachel did.
Hopefully, on a much smaller scale. If Rachel had gotten back with Ross after he said her name at the altar in London the traditional Romantic Comedy ending I am not sure that I would have compassion or liking for her, but I would not see her as a bad person. Unfortunately, she didn't, and she continued for five years.
If Rachel had disrupted Ross's wedding, and prevented his marriage from getting off the ground, because she loved him so much and only realized that the last minute, and then got back with him, I would not blame her.
But she does not get back together with Ross for five years.
She could have at any time if she really wanted to.
At first I was totally clueless. I didn't understand why the guys didn't cross the barrier, because I didn't realize I put it there.
Now I am really confused because that is not what Rachel is doing, and I fear we may have completely different understandings of Rachel and her motives.
It is not that Rachel is afraid of intimacy, or even afraid of commitment, she just doesn't want to be in a long-term relationship
now
. She wants to be a single in New York pursuing a career. Fine, but she also doesn't want Ross to get into a permanent relationship with another woman because then he won't be available when she is ready to settle down. That is pure selfishness, egregious selfishness.
So yes, I can have compassion for the Rachels in the world, male or female.
If the issue was that Rachel is afraid of commitment or afraid of intimacy, I would agree with you, but that is not the case here at all.
And I know how to handle someone who does those things. A little bit of straight talk usually does the trick.
You think that it would be possible to have a rational conversation with Rachel that would solve the problems? When in the 10 years did Rachel ever respond to a rational conversation? When was she even willing to engage in one?
Where I still have a weakness is handling another person's rage.
Do you mean the sandwich? If you don't, I have no idea what you are talking about.
One rageful incident is enough to get me scared out of my wits and never come back.
Okay. Perhaps you came from a family in which people don't express their emotions so any expression of emotion is earth shattering. There was nothing that Ross did that is out of the norm of what happens routinely at least on occasion.
Some cultures scream and yell all the time. It doesn't mean anything.
That's why Ross, in spite of his numerous good qualities would be the wrong pick for me.
Okay, I will certainly not argue with that.
I'm not talking about lower level anger. I'm talking about high intensity rage, such as I see in Ross. I don't think a little bit of straight talk is enough for people who have such rage.
I truly have no idea what you are talking about.
Again, don't misunderstand me. I understand Ross' anger is physically harmless, he never harmed any of the women in his life. I just don't have what it takes to be around it. It raises my discomfort level to a point that being around that person becomes aversive. That doesn't mean I will label him evil or selfish. -
ppllkk — 9 years ago(October 09, 2016 07:38 PM)
morganseer
wrote:
Ok then.
I am afraid that I don't understand your reply. I thought that maybe I had figured out where you are coming from, but now I am not sure.
If you are sympathetic about Rachel because you see her as being afraid of commitment and afraid of intimacy and have had such issues yourself then I can understand how you feel.
But if you think that Rachel is justified, not a bad person, not evil because she has some psychological need to keep her hooks into Ross for years and prevent him from getting on with his life, then I don't understand how you could think that.
I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that the issue is that Rachel is afraid of commitment. She simply does not want to be committed
now
.
As I said several times, I simply do not have a clue what you are talking about with Ross's anger. Would you care to elaborate?
I think that Ross behaved remarkably well through all of this. Much better than most people would under similar circumstances. -
ppllkk — 9 years ago(October 08, 2016 08:51 AM)
morganseer
wrote:
Lots of people do the step-forward, step-back dance. It's motivated by fear, not by a desire to hurt. In fact, the more people care about the relationship, the more fearful and silly they act.
That is quite a recognizable storyline, and a reasonably common storyline. It is also quite a good storyline,
but that is not the storyline in Friends
.
The storyline in
Friends
is about compulsive, unrequited love. -
Moonlighty — 9 years ago(June 13, 2016 12:40 PM)
Wow every thread you create is more over the top complaining. Why does a sitcom offend you constantly and so extremely?
Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that I'll be over here looking through your stuff.
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ppllkk — 9 years ago(June 13, 2016 12:51 PM)
Moonlighty
wrote:
Wow every thread you create is more over the top complaining.
You are just making that up. That is one of the most ridiculous things you have ever posted, and that is saying a lot.
Why does a sitcom offend you constantly and so extremely?
I think it is true of most people that there are some things in the series they are not happy about. Isn't that true of you? -
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perfect_lover2012 — 9 years ago(October 09, 2016 09:00 AM)
Phoebe was just bitter that she's the appendix of the group and she always had something negative to say about Chandler and Ross.
"When life gives you lemons"
Jessica
sleep with their fathers and have secret lemon children
