From a man's point of view.
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nunquam — 20 years ago(May 26, 2005 11:37 AM)
Yes, we shouldn't forget that no matter how heroic Dolores was, she did lay a trap for Joe and let him die. That macabre quality was the draw for the movie, but murder is not presented as the only solution. Though Dolores and Vera got away with murder, it haunted them for the rest of their lives. And Vera and Dolores get away with it, but their abusers were getting away with it, too.
But we also shouldn't forget that Dolores's daughter Selena triumphs for all three women legally, using the system. She murders no one, rather she holds a mirror up to the detective, and in some sense to the legal and social systems that provided fertile ground for all the pain we see.
And women have been victims and have been an oppressed minority, and still are in many cases. Because that theme has been explored in past films, doesn't mean it can never be explored again. -
ToastedCheese — 3 years ago(July 31, 2022 10:44 AM)
And women have been victims and have been an oppressed minority, and still are in many cases.
How are women a minority and compared to what and whom?
Women are NO more victims than men, but since they are different, they can't be compared on the same sphere
Norman! What did you put in my tea? -
tambourine_man36 — 20 years ago(June 17, 2005 02:55 AM)
jouler500-art, I supposed you're against the death pentalty. This whole, as a woman, as a man argument is rather silly. After all, the author and screen writer were both men. I guess we don't see eye to eye on things; I think some people do deserve to be killed (ie scott peterson). It's not only movies these people are talking about. You can't tell me it's right or wrong, I'll find out in the after-life. Yes, these women had other alternatives, but what a boring movie that would make.
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djsnafu23 — 17 years ago(October 04, 2008 07:47 PM)
I fyully, fully agree. The movie was a lot more challenging, thought-provoking and interesting when the dad was presented as a bad husband and a great dad- the caricature of a chartacter later presented took away from the power of the movie, and the issue of vigilantism. It was at least interesting to see the daughter never completely forgiving her mother for it..
myspace.com/bankrupteuropeans
Coz lifes too short to listen to Madlib -
dcwriter — 16 years ago(January 04, 2010 08:35 PM)
Jouler500: I do condone taking the law into our own hands (and the punishment has to fit the crime) because the law is fallible and too often does not protect the innocent. I'm a guy and I don't think such action is feminist (I'm certainly not). BTW (because I saw it mentioned by another poster), I don't support the death penalty, but yep, I do support vigilant justice if our justice system has proven time again it will be dole out 'justice' fairly.
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mh85 — 15 years ago(January 31, 2011 03:36 PM)
I don't think vigilantism should be allowed if a civil society is to function, but I can't blame Dolores for doing what she did. You can dress us up like civilized people, you can give us courtrooms and laws, but we're still the same animals we've always been and there are few instincts more base than protecting your young. There aren't many things that can damage a child worse than sexual abuse. From a societal standpoint, you can't let people do what she did, but from an evolutionary standpoint, she was doing what any animal would do to protect their young from a predator.
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ch223081976 — 9 years ago(May 14, 2016 05:31 PM)
I agree and believe in our justice system and a right to a trial for the accused. That said, I am both greatly saddened and disgusted when a child is sexually abused. The effects can be so destructive. If I found out my husband did this to our daughter, wanting to kill him would be one of many emotions I'd have. I would not do it though. Not for a reason most would think at least. I would not do it because doing so would further victimize my child. They would have no parents to live with and would go into foster care all while blaming themself.
Wouldn't be like those idiot "mothers" that continue to let it happen though. That is sickening and happens WAY too much! -
KelJu — 14 years ago(April 11, 2011 05:25 PM)
"As a woman bla bla bla bla bla" Go climb back under a rock you heartless beep Did we watch the same movie? Joe was molesting their 13 year old daughter. That is why Dolores killed him, not because of the money or because he abused her. Dolores didn't even know the money was missing until she found out that Joe was molesting Selena. When she found out, she tried to withdraw all of her money to take Selena away to hide her from Joe.
Selena was psychologically f*ucked up beyond all recognition due to sexual abuse, and constant harassment by the other people in the town. She tried to slit her own throat with a glass Christmas ornament after receiving a harassing phone call from people screaming at her that she and her mother were murderers. Her relationship issues and vindictive nature towards men went way back into her past as a victim of of horrible crimes. Her hate from her mother was caused by repressing the memories of her father, because she couldn't emotionally handle them. She is a warped and twisted soul who's only coping mechanism is her alcohol and drug addiction.
Vera, on the other hand was nothing more than a hateful man hating bitch, and was extremely proud of the title. I can't really argue with your assessment when it comes to her.
You misunderstood 90% of this movie. I suggest you stick to entertainment more appropriate to your level of mental development. I think Sesame Street is right up your alley. -
edonovan2 — 11 years ago(October 21, 2014 05:37 PM)
"Vera, on the other hand was nothing more than a hateful man hating bitch, and was extremely proud of the title." I'm not sure I agree with this. Her response, to me, indicates she experienced some of the same awfulness as Selena and/or Dolores, and that was why she was intent on helping them.
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Stratego — 9 years ago(October 11, 2016 12:39 PM)
Well well, you have a problem with Joe because he's abusive towards the women in his life, but just look at the way you talk to a woman. Hypocrite much?
You misunderstood 90% of this movie.
And you misunderstood 100% of the poster's point. Here:
"Many films try to win us over to their point of view by dehumanizing the victim, playing up how evil they are and deserving of what they get."
Seems you completely misunderstood the movie itself and the fact that it succesfully manipulated your emotions. -
epiphany-954-509107 — 12 years ago(March 21, 2014 05:12 AM)
It is easy in these modern times to forget that just a few years ago child molestation was something that everyone tended to sweep under the rug. Until recently this was a mans world. If you were born 1970's or later, you have never experienced the way it was for way to many generations of women. Even in the movie, detective Mackey figured out why Deloris killed her husband, and was still out for wrathfully justice to get the Mankiller. It didnt bother him at all to emotionally abuse the girl who'd already been through hell. Not to long ago, the world we lived in believed the victims deserved being abused, spousal abuse, child molestation It was all shameful and kept hidden. The abuser never had consequences, but those they abused, well it effected their whole lives and always effects the generations that follow. This is the ugly truth.
At least 1 out of 5 girls were molested. I don't know what the estimate is now but I hope it's gone down. I am old enough to have lived in those times, when it was completely a mans world. I rejoice at the many changes toward making this a safer, healthier world for all. You may condemn that these things are brought out into the light, but, unfortunately, it is because these things are talked about in the light of day and made into movies that we are now living in a culture that no longer further abuses women and children by blaming them for what their abuser did to them.
As a woman, I am so very relieved that at last the things which used to be only whispered about.. Things women were powerless to changeand where we suffered our whole lives with no recourse.Are brought out and looked at in the full light of day. As a woman who is old enough to have experienced living in that mans world, I am grateful to be living in a world more balanced than it has been for a few thousand years. We still have a long way to go but we are at last getting there.
Yes, I suppose some men do want their world back, but then again, when we look at those completely male dominated cultures around the world.. Abuses toward women and children are condemned. Funny, isn't it! The difference between those male dominated cultures and ours, here in the USA Is education, and 30 years.
Yes, Kathy bates deserved an Oscar, and much recognition for her performance!!!! Excellent movie, excellent subject matter! It is because """ IT""" is now being talked about that we ALL know its wrong! All hail movies like this and education! -
lexluv101 — 11 years ago(July 05, 2014 07:33 PM)
This is true as illustrated by the scene in the bank. If he were convicted, he wouldn't have spent as much time as today most likely. In addition to that, Selena wasn't wanting to tell people because she was so conflicted, which could have led to a trial never coming to light, and additional trauma on the child if it did. I'm not condoning murder, but it seems pretty clear why she did it, and the times contributed to that.
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Stratego — 9 years ago(October 11, 2016 12:34 PM)
Hey folks, let's not condone taking the "law into our own hands." These women had other alternatives besides murder. No one deserves to be murdered because someone else finds them odious, evil or whatever.
Many films try to win us over to their point of view by dehumanizing the victim, playing up how evil they are and deserving of what they get.
This was another rehash of feminism's "women as victims" and an "oppressed minority."
As a woman, I condemn those points of view of the film.
Had to post this again, because it's so true!