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  3. Y'all are making me uneasy…

Y'all are making me uneasy…

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    #33

    DFC-2 — 10 years ago(February 10, 2016 07:02 AM)

    Actually my wife and I got together when I was 29 and she was 26, both of us choosing to complete our educations and work as professionals before thinking about marriage. Most people throughout history are like us, even when the age of consent for girls was 12 in the middle ages.
    Puberty, however, has been hitting children younger than ever in our well-fed age, and some end up making choices for themselves with people they love before the age of twenty. I wish them freedom from people like you.

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      lanis_cupus — 10 years ago(February 10, 2016 11:11 PM)

      Yes, and the faster physical development takes place, the slower psycho-emotional development seems to be taking placeWHICH IS ALL THAT MATTERS.
      By the way, which is it? Was Leon an asexual hen or a 15 year old boy? Because those two are about as diametrically opposed as it gets.

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        DFC-2 — 10 years ago(February 11, 2016 03:43 AM)

        I guess it depends on the 15-year-old boy. All I know is that:
        Portman understood that her character was supposed to have mistaken paternal love for romantic love
        Besson told Reno that he was like a hen that only looked like a rooster and to think of himself as a 15-year-old-boy
        Reno said that he considered his character incapable of a sexual relationship, that even if he had survived and lived with Mathilda, he would have left her alone while he went elsewhere
        Besson's first wife was 25 when they married, one year younger than him, and they divorced in 1991, probably after the premiere of Nikita in the U.S. in April of that year.
        Maiwenn was born 17 April 1976, making her an adult under French law in 1992 and used it to escape her Mother who had exploited her for years. She left another boyfriend for Besson, was the headline star of her own film which opened April 22, 1992, and spent her time with Besson rebuilding her life into something she wanted. Later, she directed their daughter in a movie about her childhood.

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          wrote last edited by
          #36

          lanis_cupus — 9 years ago(May 11, 2016 01:38 PM)

          My conclusion is that the character, Leon, was created in an effort of self-redemption and perhaps that's why this movie works so well.
          Is this to be an empathy test?

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            DFC-2 — 9 years ago(May 11, 2016 02:49 PM)

            I'll buy that, though we are probably seeing a different form of redemption.
            To me, every Besson film up to Leon was about Besson's childhood. He described himself as the ugly reminder of a bad marriage. He was the child of two professional divers, and spent a very lonely childhood in rural Mediterranean locations swimming in the ocean with various minders monitoring him from a boat. Once, off the coast of Yugoslavia, he had one very long blissful day with a friendly dolphin that changed his life. He became obsessed with dolphins as a superior form of life and dreamed of being a scientist devoted to the study of dolphins before a diving accident at 17 left him unable to dive anymore. He became suicidal, but eventually pulled himself together enough to begin learning the film trade. Even so, he still thought of nirvana as dropping down deep into the sea as a free diver (no scuba equipment) and never surfacing. Professional free divers who do this talk of experiencing a euphoria that can easily lead to death. A famous woman free diver recently died this way.
            All his early films are about dolphin avatars, sleek graceful people who don't fit in, operate in multiple dimensions in unpredictable ways and all end up choosing some form of death or oblivion at the end. The Big Blue specifically references the death of a free diver who can't handle real life. The death of Leon is a mirror image of the ending of The Big Blue, with Leon's drop down the dark stairway and hallway at the end with a smile on his face. Subway ends with the hero dying with a smile on his face and a bullet to the head. Nikita drops into oblivion.
            Mathilda, however, survived. Portman's ebullient spirit seemed to have enabled Besson to exorcize his demon in the revised narrative he created for her. Leelou in The Fifth Element, was created before this film and her version of the athletic alien to normal life also survived in the later film. Later narratives were more about the regular human world, no longer running from it.

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              wrote last edited by
              #38

              lanis_cupus — 9 years ago(May 29, 2016 09:30 PM)

              In the end, it's a good movie. But the scene with Mathilda running down the hall in her underwear has to go. The other bits of sublimation were tolerable and were it not for that scene I probably wouldn't have watched with as much scrutiny. But that's too blatant. She could have been wearing more clothes and advanced the plot just the same.
              Is this to be an empathy test?

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                #39

                DFC-2 — 9 years ago(May 30, 2016 06:10 AM)

                I have over 700 friends on Facebook, most with families and frequent posts of their kids in many different situations no less revealing than what Besson showed. I'm sure that most of them would be horrified if they thought any of the friends who they allowed to view these photos was turned on by the images.
                The context that I never see is of an adult leering at a child and that behavior being applauded. To me, that distinction is the proper boundary, and I don't think Besson crossed it.

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                  #40

                  lanis_cupus — 9 years ago(May 31, 2016 10:29 PM)

                  I have over 700 friends on Facebook, most with families and frequent posts of their kids in many different situations no less revealing than what Besson showed.
                  Wow, you couldn't have hit on a more sensitive area. Let me break it down.
                  Whether they know it, filmmakers are exploiting children. Whether they know it, "Dance Mom's" are exploiting their children. And WHETHER THEY KNOW IT, Facebookers are exploiting their children. It's atrocious to parade one's kids in front of the world in such a manner. I've said that from day one about FB and I can't believe you would support such content. That alone tells me we have no ground for discussion and I'm sorry I ever engaged on this matter. Goodbye.

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                    wrote last edited by
                    #41

                    DFC-2 — 9 years ago(June 01, 2016 02:08 AM)

                    Whether they know it, filmmakers are exploiting children. Whether they know it, "Dance Mom's" are exploiting their children. And WHETHER THEY KNOW IT, Facebookers are exploiting their children. It's atrocious to parade one's kids in front of the world in such a manner. I've said that from day one about FB and I can't believe you would support such content. That alone tells me we have no ground for discussion and I'm sorry I ever engaged on this matter. Goodbye.
                    I'm sorry for your hang-ups. They must keep you very busy policing the world.

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                      wrote last edited by
                      #42

                      agraza — 10 years ago(February 05, 2016 10:05 PM)

                      it's called the Electra complex, little girl reaching puberty falls in love with fatherly figure (could be the father himself, a teacher or protector), Lon never fell in love with her, he saw more as a daughter than anything, I don't see what is so taboo about that, happens to pretty much every girl in existence

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                        xakanis — 10 years ago(February 15, 2016 06:27 AM)

                        There is a love interest, but it's not an easily categorized one-which is one great aspect of this movie.
                        Mathilda probably has a more sexual oriented (obviously with that dress scene near the end) love for Leon, but it's still very emotionally based. Leon has a love for her that really can't be placed exactly. This is a man who has been emotionally dead for decades, just saying he's a pedo is utterly missing the point.
                        The point is, is that they both found a loving human being in each other even though they are steeped in blood and misery, and despite huge differences physically and even emotionally.

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                          lazarillo — 10 years ago(February 18, 2016 06:54 PM)

                          There is SOME implied love interest, but they don't take it too far. I don't think you should brand the movie "pedophilic" OR the people who are disturbed by the relationship either. People are generally too hysterical about this subject. (Yes, especially in America, and I'm American). I simply don't find a 12-year-old Natalie Portman sexually attractive, so even if she had a shower scene I wouldn't care one way or another. But as for Maiwenn Lebesco. . .
                          There are 16-year-old girls who look 25 easily. Lebesco was one and she was (and is) stunning. Her younger sister, Isild, has a similar look and has been doing nude scenes in French films since she was 17 (and if the boner I have for her is wrong, I don't want to be right). It was probably not very MORAL for Besson to have a relationship with a girl that young, but I would reckon 97 percent of men would be attracted to a 16-year-old Lebesco where maybe 3 percent would be SEXUALLY attracted (she was obviously always pretty) to a 12-year-old Portman. The latter group could legitimately be branded "pedophiles", but if you're attracted to voluptuous, PHYSICALLY MATURE females, whatever their chronological age, that really just means you're a straight male. Please don't equate the two.
                          If Besson had "impregnated" Portman, you would definitely have a point, but this is exactly what I mean when I say people get hysterical about this subject.
                          "Let be be finale of seem/ The only emperor is the Emperor of Ice Cream"

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                                dehietyi-646-834242 — 10 years ago(March 11, 2016 10:28 PM)

                                From the Actual Script:
                                LEON
                                Mathilda? May I come in?
                                MATHILDA
                                Yes.
                                Leon opens the door. Mathilda is naked and is brushing her
                                hair. Leon closes back the door without entering.
                                LEON(embarrassed)
                                Sorry. I heard "yes", so I got in
                                Mathilda opens the door. She's still combing her hair. She's
                                still naked.
                                MATHILDA
                                Yes You can come in.
                                Leon is rigid. He takes a towel and deploys it in front of
                                her.
                                LEON
                                Take it, please.
                                She rolls herself into the towel, without speaking. Leon's
                                relieved.
                                And Later:
                                JENNY (surprised)
                                Did you leave alone?
                                MATHILDA (smiling)
                                No.
                                JENNY
                                (shouting)
                                YEAH! I was sure! Come on, tell me! I
                                know him?
                                MATHILDA
                                No.
                                JENNY
                                Come on, beep tell me! Is he beautiful?
                                MATHILDA (moved)
                                Yes, I think.
                                JENNY
                                I can't believe it! "Yes I think"
                                How she kids me! I can't believe it! And
                                did he pass your threshold or not?
                                MATHILDA
                                What?
                                JENNY
                                Well Did you sleep with him or not?
                                MATHILDA
                                No Not yet. He's very shy and
                                very sensitive.
                                JENNY
                                Good But what's special in him?
                                MATHILDA
                                I don't know It's true he touches
                                me. I love him.
                                And Finally:
                                Leon sweetly looks at her.
                                LEON (con't)
                                You see, I wouldn't be a good lover,
                                Mathilda.
                                MATHILDA
                                Leon, I don't know life very much I
                                just know I love you And love is
                                stronger than anything else.
                                Leon is more and more nervous, like a child.
                                LEON
                                Maybe Sure But I'm scared,
                                Mathilda.
                                Leon cries. Mathilda caresses his face.
                                MATHILDA
                                Don't fear, Leon. You mustn't fear
                                love, when it's this beautiful.
                                She caresses his chest.
                                MATHILDA (con't)
                                I want you to be the first to touch
                                me The first to make love with me.
                                Nobody before you.
                                She stands up and modestly gets off her briefs without taking
                                off her dress. Leon cries, unable to oppose her. Mathilda is
                                too young, but she's also too beautiful and lovely and sweet
                                and tender She sweetly, very sweetly, gets on him.
                                LEON(crying)
                                Why me, Mathilda, why me?
                                Mathilda leans over to speak in his ear.
                                MATHILDA
                                Because you deserve it, Leon
                                Leon embraces her. He's full of happiness, shame, so many
                                emotions, he can't control very well. But, hell, how
                                beautiful it is seeing them sweetly making love.
                                Source: http://scifiscripts.com/msol/LEON.txt

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                                  DFC-2 — 10 years ago(March 12, 2016 05:45 AM)

                                  Your post is completely irrelevant to the shooting script used for the movie, to the Leon and Mathilda characters, and to the arc of the story in the film.
                                  The script you quote was a very different story with an older girl (15-18) who happily murders an old man on a park bench with her practice rifle shot, kills a young boy who embarrasses her, and participates in killing with Leon. The Leon character is almost an exact match for Viktor in
                                  Nikita
                                  . Anyone who is inconvenient dies. They are both dysfunctional and stupid and both die in the end
                                  When Besson chose the much younger eleven-year-old Portman, both roles were substantially changed. She became a protected innocent who never kills. The character of Leon is melded with a knight character that Reno had played in a 1993 French comedy, and the screenplay is changed from a downbeat drama to a tragicomic fantasy.

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                                    dehietyi-646-834242 — 10 years ago(March 13, 2016 09:10 AM)

                                    Believe what you want but this WAS once the script ergo same character(s) in this situation regardless of casting. Add to that the undertones of the movie as it was filmed and edited and it's very easy to see this could have still happened in the story off camera. I have always loved The Professional BUT it has always been a little off in the dynamic to the relationship between Mathilda and Leon. Given Besson's own personal life at the time of writing, directing and editing this film it's not a stretch of the imagination especially when viewing the Director's Cut.

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                                      DFC-2 — 10 years ago(March 13, 2016 11:36 AM)

                                      Do you realize that the short version is his director's cut?
                                      Actually, it is precisely "stretch of the imagination" that gives life to those who want to see a sexual component with Portman.
                                      It doesn't matter that:
                                      Portman was initially rejected because she was too young
                                      when she was chosen for the part, Besson worked with her and her parents to insure the script was revised in an acceptable way
                                      Portman's Mother was on the set at all times
                                      Portman is on record as saying that she thoroughly understood what she was asked to do and was never exploited in any way
                                      none of the principals (Reno, Besson, Portman) saw sex as even a possibility in their understanding of the characters in the film
                                      the film that was actually shot was lifted almost entirely from older titles (
                                      This Gun for Hire

                                      • at the beginning, a hitman showing kindness to a young girl on a landing after a job; escaping detection with a gasmask during a massive police presence and dying with the bad guy at the end
                                        Gloria
                                        (1980) - mob figure saving a child in an apartment hallway whose family had just been massacred; child propositioning the adult for sex before being rejected)
                                        major changes to scripts are routine parts of movie development
                                        Besson never in his life had a documented sexual relationship with anyone who didn't look like and was not an independent adult in the sight of the law
                                        Besson was one of the few French entertainment personalities who refused to sign a petition supporting Roman Polanski's freedom from further U.S. prosecution, saying that he thought Polanski should be subject to the law
                                        Despite having three ex-wives and many French entertainment peers who don't like his American-style films and find any excuse they can to criticize him, there has never been a scandal associated with his handling of children.
                                        Some people still want, need, dream about some nasty purpose, or un-shown footage, or behind scenes leering at Portman, or that they themselves are being unnaturally tempted to have bad thoughts.
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