There is no actual or implied love interest between Leon and Mathilda. All posts suggesting that should stop. Unless you
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DFC-2 — 10 years ago(January 27, 2016 09:51 AM)
I have two grand nieces, sisters, who got pregnant with their boy friends at the age of 15. Both are now in their twenties still living in marriage with the boys who got them pregnant, one with two sons and the other with two daughters and a son. They post pictures of their happy families and share family details among many friends who did likewise. All that they have asked of my Mother, their great-grandmother is not to judge them. My grandmother married at 16. Their grandmother married at 22, but was less mature than they were at 15.
It is easy to say they were too young to make they choices they did, but neither case was an issue of abuse, and they have made it work in ways my sister never could because of her self-involved immaturity.
Mogeary talked about fetishizing, but young people can be fetishized many ways, not least by pompous adults who view them as mere innocent babies who are suddenly transformed into competent adults at 18. Real human lives are a little more diverse. -
lanis_cupus — 10 years ago(February 10, 2016 02:51 AM)
The fact that you're so vehemently defending the director's actions with a minor calls you into question.
Yes, there were (natural) sexual undertones in the original version of Leon. And NO, under no circumstances is it acceptable to get a teenage girl pregnant in today's world.
Is this to be an empathy test? -
DFC-2 — 10 years ago(February 10, 2016 03:17 AM)
The fact that you're so vehemently defending the director's actions with a minor calls you into question.
Yes, there were (natural) sexual undertones in the original version of Leon. And NO,
under no circumstances is it acceptable to get a teenage girl pregnant in today's world
.
All I have done is say that condemnation of Besson is unwarranted on the information we have, and that Maiwenn was not a minor under French law when she became pregnant with Besson. Your final statement about women under 20 (teenagers)condemns millions of legitimate relationships around the world and in your own family's past, not to mention almost certainly accusing your own government of being guilty.
Under the circumstances, I take it as a badge of honor that I fail to please such an over-the-top prejudiced individual. -
lanis_cupus — 10 years ago(February 10, 2016 04:27 AM)
In the 1800s you might have been offering a girl a life that she'd otherwise have no chance of attaining. Today's young women have social potential; they have optionsat least until someone like you comes and steals those options away by knocking them up. Steals their LIFE away.
Now if you don't mind, I have women to seduce. But I'll be back one day. -
DFC-2 — 10 years ago(February 10, 2016 07:02 AM)
Actually my wife and I got together when I was 29 and she was 26, both of us choosing to complete our educations and work as professionals before thinking about marriage. Most people throughout history are like us, even when the age of consent for girls was 12 in the middle ages.
Puberty, however, has been hitting children younger than ever in our well-fed age, and some end up making choices for themselves with people they love before the age of twenty. I wish them freedom from people like you. -
lanis_cupus — 10 years ago(February 10, 2016 11:11 PM)
Yes, and the faster physical development takes place, the slower psycho-emotional development seems to be taking placeWHICH IS ALL THAT MATTERS.
By the way, which is it? Was Leon an asexual hen or a 15 year old boy? Because those two are about as diametrically opposed as it gets. -
DFC-2 — 10 years ago(February 11, 2016 03:43 AM)
I guess it depends on the 15-year-old boy. All I know is that:
Portman understood that her character was supposed to have mistaken paternal love for romantic love
Besson told Reno that he was like a hen that only looked like a rooster and to think of himself as a 15-year-old-boy
Reno said that he considered his character incapable of a sexual relationship, that even if he had survived and lived with Mathilda, he would have left her alone while he went elsewhere
Besson's first wife was 25 when they married, one year younger than him, and they divorced in 1991, probably after the premiere of Nikita in the U.S. in April of that year.
Maiwenn was born 17 April 1976, making her an adult under French law in 1992 and used it to escape her Mother who had exploited her for years. She left another boyfriend for Besson, was the headline star of her own film which opened April 22, 1992, and spent her time with Besson rebuilding her life into something she wanted. Later, she directed their daughter in a movie about her childhood. -
DFC-2 — 9 years ago(May 11, 2016 02:49 PM)
I'll buy that, though we are probably seeing a different form of redemption.
To me, every Besson film up to Leon was about Besson's childhood. He described himself as the ugly reminder of a bad marriage. He was the child of two professional divers, and spent a very lonely childhood in rural Mediterranean locations swimming in the ocean with various minders monitoring him from a boat. Once, off the coast of Yugoslavia, he had one very long blissful day with a friendly dolphin that changed his life. He became obsessed with dolphins as a superior form of life and dreamed of being a scientist devoted to the study of dolphins before a diving accident at 17 left him unable to dive anymore. He became suicidal, but eventually pulled himself together enough to begin learning the film trade. Even so, he still thought of nirvana as dropping down deep into the sea as a free diver (no scuba equipment) and never surfacing. Professional free divers who do this talk of experiencing a euphoria that can easily lead to death. A famous woman free diver recently died this way.
All his early films are about dolphin avatars, sleek graceful people who don't fit in, operate in multiple dimensions in unpredictable ways and all end up choosing some form of death or oblivion at the end. The Big Blue specifically references the death of a free diver who can't handle real life. The death of Leon is a mirror image of the ending of The Big Blue, with Leon's drop down the dark stairway and hallway at the end with a smile on his face. Subway ends with the hero dying with a smile on his face and a bullet to the head. Nikita drops into oblivion.
Mathilda, however, survived. Portman's ebullient spirit seemed to have enabled Besson to exorcize his demon in the revised narrative he created for her. Leelou in The Fifth Element, was created before this film and her version of the athletic alien to normal life also survived in the later film. Later narratives were more about the regular human world, no longer running from it. -
lanis_cupus — 9 years ago(May 29, 2016 09:30 PM)
In the end, it's a good movie. But the scene with Mathilda running down the hall in her underwear has to go. The other bits of sublimation were tolerable and were it not for that scene I probably wouldn't have watched with as much scrutiny. But that's too blatant. She could have been wearing more clothes and advanced the plot just the same.
Is this to be an empathy test? -
DFC-2 — 9 years ago(May 30, 2016 06:10 AM)
I have over 700 friends on Facebook, most with families and frequent posts of their kids in many different situations no less revealing than what Besson showed. I'm sure that most of them would be horrified if they thought any of the friends who they allowed to view these photos was turned on by the images.
The context that I never see is of an adult leering at a child and that behavior being applauded. To me, that distinction is the proper boundary, and I don't think Besson crossed it. -
lanis_cupus — 9 years ago(May 31, 2016 10:29 PM)
I have over 700 friends on Facebook, most with families and frequent posts of their kids in many different situations no less revealing than what Besson showed.
Wow, you couldn't have hit on a more sensitive area. Let me break it down.
Whether they know it, filmmakers are exploiting children. Whether they know it, "Dance Mom's" are exploiting their children. And WHETHER THEY KNOW IT, Facebookers are exploiting their children. It's atrocious to parade one's kids in front of the world in such a manner. I've said that from day one about FB and I can't believe you would support such content. That alone tells me we have no ground for discussion and I'm sorry I ever engaged on this matter. Goodbye. -
DFC-2 — 9 years ago(June 01, 2016 02:08 AM)
Whether they know it, filmmakers are exploiting children. Whether they know it, "Dance Mom's" are exploiting their children. And WHETHER THEY KNOW IT, Facebookers are exploiting their children. It's atrocious to parade one's kids in front of the world in such a manner. I've said that from day one about FB and I can't believe you would support such content. That alone tells me we have no ground for discussion and I'm sorry I ever engaged on this matter. Goodbye.
I'm sorry for your hang-ups. They must keep you very busy policing the world. -
agraza — 10 years ago(February 05, 2016 10:05 PM)
it's called the Electra complex, little girl reaching puberty falls in love with fatherly figure (could be the father himself, a teacher or protector), Lon never fell in love with her, he saw more as a daughter than anything, I don't see what is so taboo about that, happens to pretty much every girl in existence
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xakanis — 10 years ago(February 15, 2016 06:27 AM)
There is a love interest, but it's not an easily categorized one-which is one great aspect of this movie.
Mathilda probably has a more sexual oriented (obviously with that dress scene near the end) love for Leon, but it's still very emotionally based. Leon has a love for her that really can't be placed exactly. This is a man who has been emotionally dead for decades, just saying he's a pedo is utterly missing the point.
The point is, is that they both found a loving human being in each other even though they are steeped in blood and misery, and despite huge differences physically and even emotionally. -
lazarillo — 10 years ago(February 18, 2016 06:54 PM)
There is SOME implied love interest, but they don't take it too far. I don't think you should brand the movie "pedophilic" OR the people who are disturbed by the relationship either. People are generally too hysterical about this subject. (Yes, especially in America, and I'm American). I simply don't find a 12-year-old Natalie Portman sexually attractive, so even if she had a shower scene I wouldn't care one way or another. But as for Maiwenn Lebesco. . .
There are 16-year-old girls who look 25 easily. Lebesco was one and she was (and is) stunning. Her younger sister, Isild, has a similar look and has been doing nude scenes in French films since she was 17 (and if the boner I have for her is wrong, I don't want to be right). It was probably not very MORAL for Besson to have a relationship with a girl that young, but I would reckon 97 percent of men would be attracted to a 16-year-old Lebesco where maybe 3 percent would be SEXUALLY attracted (she was obviously always pretty) to a 12-year-old Portman. The latter group could legitimately be branded "pedophiles", but if you're attracted to voluptuous, PHYSICALLY MATURE females, whatever their chronological age, that really just means you're a straight male. Please don't equate the two.
If Besson had "impregnated" Portman, you would definitely have a point, but this is exactly what I mean when I say people get hysterical about this subject.
"Let be be finale of seem/ The only emperor is the Emperor of Ice Cream" -
dehietyi-646-834242 — 10 years ago(March 11, 2016 10:28 PM)
From the Actual Script:
LEON
Mathilda? May I come in?
MATHILDA
Yes.
Leon opens the door. Mathilda is naked and is brushing her
hair. Leon closes back the door without entering.
LEON(embarrassed)
Sorry. I heard "yes", so I got in
Mathilda opens the door. She's still combing her hair. She's
still naked.
MATHILDA
Yes You can come in.
Leon is rigid. He takes a towel and deploys it in front of
her.
LEON
Take it, please.
She rolls herself into the towel, without speaking. Leon's
relieved.
And Later:
JENNY (surprised)
Did you leave alone?
MATHILDA (smiling)
No.
JENNY
(shouting)
YEAH! I was sure! Come on, tell me! I
know him?
MATHILDA
No.
JENNY
Come on, beep tell me! Is he beautiful?
MATHILDA (moved)
Yes, I think.
JENNY
I can't believe it! "Yes I think"
How she kids me! I can't believe it! And
did he pass your threshold or not?
MATHILDA
What?
JENNY
Well Did you sleep with him or not?
MATHILDA
No Not yet. He's very shy and
very sensitive.
JENNY
Good But what's special in him?
MATHILDA
I don't know It's true he touches
me. I love him.
And Finally:
Leon sweetly looks at her.
LEON (con't)
You see, I wouldn't be a good lover,
Mathilda.
MATHILDA
Leon, I don't know life very much I
just know I love you And love is
stronger than anything else.
Leon is more and more nervous, like a child.
LEON
Maybe Sure But I'm scared,
Mathilda.
Leon cries. Mathilda caresses his face.
MATHILDA
Don't fear, Leon. You mustn't fear
love, when it's this beautiful.
She caresses his chest.
MATHILDA (con't)
I want you to be the first to touch
me The first to make love with me.
Nobody before you.
She stands up and modestly gets off her briefs without taking
off her dress. Leon cries, unable to oppose her. Mathilda is
too young, but she's also too beautiful and lovely and sweet
and tender She sweetly, very sweetly, gets on him.
LEON(crying)
Why me, Mathilda, why me?
Mathilda leans over to speak in his ear.
MATHILDA
Because you deserve it, Leon
Leon embraces her. He's full of happiness, shame, so many
emotions, he can't control very well. But, hell, how
beautiful it is seeing them sweetly making love.
Source: http://scifiscripts.com/msol/LEON.txt -
DFC-2 — 10 years ago(March 12, 2016 05:45 AM)
Your post is completely irrelevant to the shooting script used for the movie, to the Leon and Mathilda characters, and to the arc of the story in the film.
The script you quote was a very different story with an older girl (15-18) who happily murders an old man on a park bench with her practice rifle shot, kills a young boy who embarrasses her, and participates in killing with Leon. The Leon character is almost an exact match for Viktor in
Nikita
. Anyone who is inconvenient dies. They are both dysfunctional and stupid and both die in the end
When Besson chose the much younger eleven-year-old Portman, both roles were substantially changed. She became a protected innocent who never kills. The character of Leon is melded with a knight character that Reno had played in a 1993 French comedy, and the screenplay is changed from a downbeat drama to a tragicomic fantasy.