The movie beginning about half-way through is about the looming prescence and mystery of Keyser Soze, the last shot of t
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — The Usual Suspects
Klockard23 — 9 years ago(July 15, 2016 08:20 PM)
The movie beginning about half-way through is about the looming prescence and mystery of Keyser Soze, the last shot of the film is a repeat of Verbal's line, "And just like that He's gone" when talking about Soze, clearly referencing the fact that Verbal (i.e. Soze) has just slipped away from Kujan for good, etc. And then the physical description of Soze from the Hungarian, of which your arguments against are laughable. There's more than enough evidence in the movie for anyone with any amount of insight to understand that the filmmakers want you to think Verbal is Keyser.
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sesquick-seabag — 9 years ago(July 15, 2016 09:24 PM)
to understand that the filmmakers want you to think Verbal is Keyser.
Oh, and you forgot the fact that Soze is apparently Verbal in Turkish. Yes, I wouldn't disagree that they nudge you in that direction (I've already made this clear, I don't dispute it) but what I'm saying is the actual information that's divulged is, while compelling, insufficient to positively ID Verbal Kint as Kayser Soze. It's purely circumstantial. And if you think it isn't then you're seriously lacking imagination and logic. The fact that Kint fakes a limp, borrowed names off an office room board, and the presence of a sketch dictated by a burnt, delirious terrorist probably wouldn't stand up in court if the motion was to prove his real identity is "Keyser Soze". The writer of this film has said he's fine with alternate takes on it, ie it's ambiguous enough to allow speculation. So what the hell is your problem, you angry little twat? -
Klockard23 — 9 years ago(July 16, 2016 12:45 AM)
My problem is simpletons like you who deny the obvious in an attempt to make something more mysterious than it really is. They don't "nudge" you in that direction, they make it blantly obvious for all the reasons I've already listed thus far. You are literally the reason storytelling has to be dumbed down so often, since you aren't smart enough to connect the dots on your own if something isn't 110% spelled out for you (and it just about is anyhow in this case.)
It's literally the main reason the ending is supposed to be such a twist; Not just because Verbal is lying and isn't crippled, but because he's this Keyser Soze figure that they've been talking about for the past hour. -
sesquick-seabag — 9 years ago(July 16, 2016 07:45 AM)
Diddums. I can quite see how it stresses you, that someone has the nerve to have some fun playing around with the plot of a movie.
And yet even though you disagreed with them, you were fairly amiable to the person who wonders if it could be Kobayashi on this thread:
http://www.imdb.com/board/10114814/board/thread/259304126
Hmmm So I do wonder what I said to incur your bitter scorn, Klockard
Anyway, onto ignore you go, as life's too short to bother with vile, obnoxious twats. -
Stratego — 9 years ago(July 16, 2016 04:46 AM)
I'm saying is the actual information that's divulged is, while compelling, insufficient to positively ID Verbal Kint as Kayser Soze. It's purely circumstantial.
The fact that Kint fakes a limp, borrowed names off an office room board, and the presence of a sketch dictated by a burnt, delirious terrorist probably wouldn't stand up in court if the motion was to prove his real identity is "Keyser Soze".
When was it ever about having enough evidence for a case in court? It's supposed to be just enough to convince Kujan and the audience what the truth really is. There are enough movies, tv shows and books, where we know who the killer is (sometimes they even say it out loud), but there'll never be enough evidence to convict them. -
sesquick-seabag — 9 years ago(July 16, 2016 07:59 AM)
There are enough movies, tv shows and books, where we know who the killer is (sometimes they even say it out loud),
Well I am saying the evidence, clues do point to Verbal being the killer. Just not inescapably to the conclusion that he's Keyser (though he's the most likely suspect). That's a reasonable conclusion even though it deviates from the framework of McQuarrie's intent. And he's even said that himself (I think, addressing fan speculation that Kobayashi could be Soze and Verbal is his henchman), so what's the big deal. -
Tony_Silvio — 9 years ago(August 30, 2016 04:29 AM)
The fact that Kint fabricated most of that story on the fly and tricked everyone into thinking he was a helpless cripple is the part that is supposed to tell you he's the big boss. Not to mention he keeps referring to himself as the devil, as it turns outthe man who is willing to do what the other men won't, which is clearly true.
You're really overcomplicating things. What mere henchman would Soze trust to manage this master plan that seems to have been put in motion all the way back when Verbal got himself locked up so he could befriend Keaton? -
sesquick-seabag — 9 years ago(September 04, 2016 05:57 PM)
The fact that Kint fabricated most of that story on the fly and tricked everyone into thinking he was a helpless cripple is the part that is supposed to tell you he's the big boss
It may be that it's
supposed
to - but, in spite of that, it doesn't. All it explicitly shows is that Verbal is not a cripple and that he and Kobayashi are working together. Hardly hard evidence that either of them is Soze himself, or that Soze (as an individual person) is even anything other than a myth. So I don't really give a damn what Singer wanted the audience to think; what he constructed does leave enough room for alternative speculation whether he likes it or not.
What mere henchman would Soze trust to manage this master plan that seems to have been put in motion all the way back when Verbal got himself locked up so he could befriend Keaton?
Is it made explicitly clear that he befriended Keaton for that sole purpose, though? That is, for the sole purpose of using him as a pawn to clear the way for Verbal to get on board and kill the informant Marquez? Bear in mind Rabin tells Kujan that Artuto Marquez was "arrested last year, for petty smuggling" and that he turned informant to evade prison. In the jail cell scene, Keaton just says he and Verbal have met "once or twice before", that's what I remember them saying. It didn't seem to imply they necessarily met within the last year. If that was made specific I invite you to correct me.
It seems that Marquez was known to the police as a "petty smuggler from argentina" - but if he's the guy who had all that info on Soze, he must have been much more than that in reality. All I was saying was that "Verbal" could have been someone in a similar position: in reality a high-ranking member of the crime organization who occasionally poses as someone else in a lowly position - perhaps in order to "collect" people like Keaton and McManus for Soze's future use as and when he needs? Anyway, why would he have needed to befriend Keaton in order to get him involved, but not any of the others? For the record here, I think Verbal is most probably Soze (Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is the most likely) but I still maintain the movie doesn't explicitly negate the idea that he isn't. -
bh_tafe3 — 9 years ago(December 09, 2016 01:45 PM)
I don't think there's much to understand. A criminal in a room is using information around him to spin a story to a cop. the most trustworthy information in the film is what we hear from the Hungarian who survived the explosion and the FBI file of the dead informant they found in the harbour. All the rest: who knows? We hear his story checked out which means that the New York's Finest story is something that actually happened. But we've just seen him pluck Kobayashi and Redfoot off a coffee mug and a notice board, how do we know he didn't just read a lot of media coverage and work it in to his Grand Jury testimony? We can assume there was an original line up and an arms robbery in Queen's to trigger it and that a guy named Saul Berg was killed in a parking garage. We don't know if he was killed by the group. Are Kobayashi and Redfoot real people who Kint has given fake names to, or are they complete fabrications? Hell, for all we know the real Kint was some poor bastard crippled petty criminal who was part of the original line up who's lying dead in a ditch with two bullets in his head so Soze could take his identity after the boat job. We really know, for sure, very little about what went on over the 8-10 weeks that Kint's story covers.