Something I don't get.. Plot hole?
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Cradocus — 11 years ago(May 20, 2014 02:27 PM)
Actually the stupid part is that Keyser - the super rich criminal's plan to take down the boat/witness, is an elaborate scheme to use 4 guys and a couple machine guns.
Maybe you know, he could have just hired a few goons with a rocket launcher and some grenades. -
Stratego — 11 years ago(June 03, 2014 04:38 PM)
Maybe you know, he could have just hired a few goons with a rocket launcher and some grenades.
That would have immediately pointed to Keyser Soze, though. He wanted to sell it to the police as a dope deal gone wrong, so that wouldn't have worked. -
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mail-2217 — 11 years ago(June 02, 2014 10:03 PM)
This is a completely valid criticism. It's like many b-movie film noires. There really is no point to -any- of it if you think too hard. Verbal doesn't have to sit down for the interview. Verbal doesn't need to do -anything-, really.
It's a movie.
But I don't say that with disdain. I -love- this movie. If movies were like life, they'd be too dismal to watch. -
There_Is_No_Sayid — 11 years ago(September 23, 2014 10:50 AM)
Keyser screws up. He doesn't realize that a) one of the Hungarians survived the explosion and can identify him and b) that Kujan will realize that he invented many of the details of the story and conclude that he's Keyser Soze. While the film portrays Soze as a master criminal, the guy isn't god. He needed the assistance of Dean Keaton and the others to get on the ship and he managed to get caught by the police as he fled the scene.
Unless Alpert's covered in bacon grease, I don't think Hugo can track anything. -
drystyx — 11 years ago(December 01, 2014 09:08 AM)
Because the name "Kaiser Soze" is itself not who he is. He is Satan. "Kaiser" is derived from "Caesar", and is merely the Hungarian's word for the ruler of Hell.
Keaton and his girlfriend infringed on the copyright of Satan, and imagined themselves bigger than Satan. It's the reverse of the God complex, and much more common, since it's easier to imagine being a perfect evil than a perfect good.
The clues are there throughout as Keaton practically boasts about being a super Satan, and his lawyer girlfriend is obviously worse, and also she's obviously the brains. She has a bigger "Satan" complex than Keaton does. It's her that ultimately is in the office of the devil, trying to seal the deal, being outwitted the entire way.
Think of the movie as a mirror image to her story. It's showing what happens behind the scenes in her deal with the devil.
But you can't deal with the Devil.
Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time -
Duluume — 11 years ago(January 19, 2015 05:47 AM)
ok huh?
I'm sure that you put a lot of thinking coming to this conclusion, but I honestly don't see anything else but gibberish in your analysis.
Don't take it wrong: I'm not trolling nor am I willingly agressif, but I just don't get the whole Satan thing as well as the role of Keaton's girlfriend ni your mind.
Cheers -
king_of_bob — 11 years ago(February 08, 2015 05:04 PM)
So the point of the boat job was to kill the one guy who had seen Kaizer but then Kaizer basically reveals who he is to the cops at the end anyway, so what was the point?
It was many birds with one stone. Each of the "Suspects" had wronged Soze at some point in their career. So he gathered them all together to help him eliminate a witness and at the same time give him the opportunity to take out each of the "Suspects."
And he doesn't reveal who he really is to the cops. They might suspect that the guy they were talking to is Soze, but they don't actually KNOW it.
Not to mention, knowing a persons face and being able to actually find them anywhere in the world are two VERY different things.
Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa! -
degree7 — 10 years ago(October 08, 2015 09:34 PM)
It's the main reason the movie doesn't hold up.
Verbal has no reason to even be in the movie. He could have just guided the suspects from behind the scenes, seeing as Redfoot (and Kobayashi) was McManus's fence. And apparently, Keyser Soze is this all powerful, mythic criminal mastermind, so surely he could have just killed the suspects separately instead of concocting this overly elaborate plan to have them attack a boat. And Soze could have just had his own minions attack the boat.
Also, Verbal staying behind at the scene of the crime to be picked up by police sort of defeats the whole purpose of him getting rid of the stoolie, like you said. Now the police have his identity. Also, there was no way Verbal would have been able to kill all the "suspects" on the boat from his original position. No one noticed Verbal running around shooting people?
The movie doesn't hold up to scrutiny, imo.
~ I'm a 21st century man and I don't wanna be here. -
Stratego — 10 years ago(October 09, 2015 06:07 AM)
so surely he could have just killed the suspects separately instead of concocting this overly elaborate plan to have them attack a boat.
Except that the goal of his elaborate plan was to have the captured rat on the boat be killed, not the suspects.
And Soze could have just had his own minions attack the boat.
Why would he sacrifice his best men? That's the reason he chose the suspects, because he didn't mind them as collateral damage
Now the police have his identity.
They don't have his identity, they have no idea who he really is. They only have a face, and as said, he wasn't going to show his face ever again. Keaton was also able to disappear, even though they knew exactly who he was.
Also, there was no way Verbal would have been able to kill all the "suspects" on the boat from his original position.
How do you know what his "original position" even was? -
Stealth_Cobra — 10 years ago(October 27, 2015 10:58 PM)
Verbal would have it easy to kill the rest of the crew if he was posing as one of them. He could walk up to them, then kill them before they react.
The fact he gets picked up by the police in the first place is what gets to me ? Was that part of the plan, and if so, what kind of plan was that ? Did he get the truck with the money out of the docks ? I'm guessing he got caught while smuggling it out or something ? Why is the police so willing to cut him an immunity deal if he's the only surviving suspect in a drug deal gone back , and after he admits he killed people during some of the pre-boat robberies.
If they were no drugs on the boat, why didn't he simply blow the boat up with explosives ? Why send a couple of guys on a boat in hopes that they will single-handedly wipe out all the crew of heavily armed men. Nothing worth salvaging on the boat anyway, just nuke it. I get that he wanted to get rid of the usual suspects, since they interfered with his work in the past, but that seems like a pretty high risk ,low security plan for a supposededly "criminal mastermind".
Also, for a criminal mastermind, he sure is sloppy. He left one burn victim witness alive, he allows himself to get caught, having his fingerprint and current identity revealed, then he proceed to explain a good portion of what probably transpired. Nowadays, they know his face, his voice, his alias, have his fingerprints and even have someone to testify against him.
Was I Dreaming ? - Harry Mason -
Stratego — 10 years ago(October 28, 2015 08:18 AM)
The fact he gets picked up by the police in the first place is what gets to me ? Was that part of the plan, and if so, what kind of plan was that ?
His plan was to get caught by the police so he could feed them the nonsense story about a dope deal gone wrong and they'd close the case as soon as possible.
Did he get the truck with the money out of the docks ?
I don't think so. He didn't care about the money, it wasn't his anyway. I believe you can already hear sirens when Soze is fleeing from the ship. The police probably found Verbal at or near the docks.
Why is the police so willing to cut him an immunity deal if he's the only surviving suspect in a drug deal gone back , and after he admits he killed people during some of the pre-boat robberies.
Because he's the only surviving witness, they have no one else. And because, as the detective mentions, he was protected from up high by "the prince of darkness".
If they were no drugs on the boat, why didn't he simply blow the boat up with explosives ?
How was he going to do that? Someone had to sneak on board just like they do in the movie (in the original script Keaton does actually place an explosive on the ship). Besides, he had to personally shoot the rat and make sure he was dead. The rest of the gang had to kill off all other witnesses and die themselves. An explosion alone wouldn't be good enough.
Also, for a criminal mastermind, he sure is sloppy.
His plan wasn't completely airtight, but that's because the rat he wanted dead was heavily guarded. He had to kill many people to succeed, it was a very risky plan.
Nowadays, they know his face, his voice, his alias, have his fingerprints and even have someone to testify against him.
As was said in the movie by the detectives, that doesn't matter, he's not going to show his face again. He's not that much different than Keaton. They knew exactly who he was, but he was able to fake his death and get away with his crimes. Even if the Hungarian recovers from his wounds, I doubt he's going to live for very long. -
move_over_fatso — 10 years ago(January 02, 2016 08:34 PM)
The fact he gets picked up by the police in the first place is what gets to me ?
Verbal Kint is a career criminal. He's been charged & convicted for fraud before. The myth Kaiser Soze is supposed to be some super-evil criminal genius. The real man, Verbal Kint (assuming he is Soze) is only interested in using the myth to further his goals.
Why is the police so willing to cut him an immunity deal if he's the only surviving suspect in a drug deal gone back
Its the FBI/DOJ that cut Verbal the immunity deal. They just want to put a close to their paperwork ordeal, and build evidence against the cartel they're chasing. Prosecutors will never willingly cut an immunity deal with someone actually responsible for committing the crime, but they will cut an immunity deal with an accomplice, as long as they have someone to hang (the cartel). Verbal still has to preserve his deal with the Feds. The possible error is Verbal willing to string along Kujan, from US Customs, rather than dummy up, but con men are supposed to be sociopaths
If they were no drugs on the boat, why didn't he simply blow the boat up with explosives ?
Kint did have Hockney setup explosives around the boat, but he didn't have a way to plant explosives to blow up the boat from the inside. And as long is it was a drug deal gone bad, the Feds would not conclude that it was actually a hit on someone they were developing as a cooperating witness (one hand doesn't know what the other is doing). And contrary to your belief, its not easy to blow up and sink a small cargo ship to "guarantee" the human target dies in the ship, and not jump overboard.