Great Cast! How come it sucked?
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Wetbones — 20 years ago(May 04, 2005 12:52 PM)
It sucks because MGM took the film away from the director and ruined it by editing it to death. I keep hoping for a restored director's cut DVD release in the future but the sad thing is that the movie simply isn't popular to make it worthwhile for anyone to invest in such a thing.
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lbradford47 — 20 years ago(June 02, 2005 02:00 AM)
I may be one of the few who see this as a fine film. I lived in the 40's and 50's and know how people dressed. There is magic in this film, it was no easy task driving across a desert and water was everything. Everyone is so used to seeing a cell phone and jet travel the whole story is missed. People dont know how vicious J. Edgar Hoover could be, and this jumps at you in the film. Maybe so many disliked this film because it was as if they were sitting in a history class in high school. Jennifer Connelly could have been used more and possibly expanded. All in all I enjoyed this film and still remember when ladies wore white gloves in public and black ones to funerals. It was a classy time period for clothes, men wore suits and hats to LA Rams football games.
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rock_bustin — 20 years ago(July 12, 2005 02:03 PM)
Well, I don't think it sucked - but many did. Why?
I think it's a fine movie and have waited for the
DVD having just about worn-out my old copy pulled
from Cinemax years ago. IMHO, it's main faults are
two: 1. It's episodic (doesn't flow well). 2. It
won't really work on you unless you are sympathetic
too, or admiring of, the main characters.
"It's episodic" is something you could probably say about
a lot of movies (Star Wars Epi IV - in fact all of them).
I can only say even I feel it fails to make one flowing
story. The ensemble cast is underdeveloped and Madsen is
completely wasted. The conspiracy theory on the A-bombs
is not explored enough - If J.Edgar was knowledgable it
went right to the top. Why would a Army officer take it
upon himself to set himself up on murder charges without
a "get-out-of-jail" card like is mentioned in "Patriot
Games" ? What were the two pilots supposed to think if
the officers pulled it off and murdered Nick and Chaz ?
They just fell out? Really, it could've made a better
Trilogy : Part I, The Hat Squad bust the Mob and Nolte
sleeps around, Part II. Murder, Conspiracy and Cover-up,
Part III Final Denouement.
For me, it's my sympathy to the main characters and their
foilbles that suck me in. I have never cheated on my wife ever
But for Allison Pond ( Jennifer D.) - WOW ! OK ruin my life
baby. Whata goddess she was in this movie. "Spectacular", the
dialog sez at one point. And Nolte is in top form: "You carry
your own water." Spoken like a true tough guy.
This film is a great film if you like the time period style and
are honest enough to admit sharing some of the same weaknesses
of the main characters while still admiring their strengths. -
maturity — 19 years ago(January 27, 2007 10:50 PM)
"1. It's episodic (doesn't flow well). 2. It
won't really work on you unless you are sympathetic
too, or admiring of, the main characters."
I think it will appeal to people who like Chinatown, The Big Sleep, The Maltese Falcon, The Public Eye, and L.A. Confidential. It's slow, but so was Chinatown. It has some weaknesses, but I liked it overall.
"I can only say even I feel it fails to make one flowing
story. The ensemble cast is underdeveloped and Madsen is
completely wasted."
Chris Penn is also wasted, but that's probably because MGM butchered the film. It needed 130 minutes to be told. Instead, it got 107. Half the characters are not really developed or introduced properly. Wait for the Director's Cut. Many movies are ruined by the studio's interference.
"Why would a Army officer take it
upon himself to set himself up on murder charges without
a "get-out-of-jail" card ?"
He thought he could get away with it and nobody would ever find out that he was responsible. If not for a series of (huge) coincidences - Hoover being involved with the girl, for instance - he would have gotten away with it. Look at how he interacted with General Timms. There was obviously tension and insubordination. He questioned orders, debated them, and then defied them. He saw Timms as unfit to command. He had the Captain on his side, too.
"What were the two pilots supposed to think if
the officers pulled it off and murdered Nick and Chaz ?
They just fell out?"
They wouldn't think anything. They wouldn't see every person who gets on or off the plane. They wouldn't hear the gun shots over the engine. They wouldn't know that someone had been thrown out of the plane. What makes you think the pilot/s would keep track of every person getting on or off?
"And Nolte is in top form: "You carry
your own water." Spoken like a true tough guy."
Nolte's good, but he mumbles a lot and is almost unintelligible half the time. This is my second favorite Nolte film, after 48 Hrs. -
Noir-It-All — 17 years ago(May 02, 2008 08:08 AM)
The script asks us to trust it: Allison Pond was known to have found out about the secret program. How? Did her "best friend" who photographed her in action and the short film shown at the beginning of the film tell her? Did General Timms tell her? People talk. But, Jennifer was never shown talking except by the pool, certainly not about a serious subject.
"Two more swords and I'll be Queen of the Monkey People." Roseanne -
eyescorp — 16 years ago(February 04, 2010 01:00 PM)
Why would a Army officer take it
upon himself to set himself up on murder charges without
a "get-out-of-jail" card <<<
My theory: In true noir style, life is cheap, women are expendable, and the bad guys are arrogant. I think Treat's character thought that pushing a nobody prostitute out of a plane would not get traced back to him at all, and that frankly, no one would care. And I think the audience is supposed to feel how anonymous and expendable Connelly's character was. She was "spectacular" to a few of the men who frequented her or fell for her goddess-prostitute aura, but the tension here is that she is a prostitute or escort: illicit, powerful, but an anonymous woman of the night. Treat just sees her as in the way, so he gets rid of her. I think Nolte is the snag here: If he hadn't have been enthralled with Connelly, the case probably wouldn't have gone too far. IMHO -
plabord — 20 years ago(July 12, 2005 11:58 PM)
I thought John Malkovich was terribly miscast in the role of an Army general. Although I like him as an actor, and have enjoyed his performances in other roles, Malkovich does not even come close to being credible as a career military officer.
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dwarol — 17 years ago(January 04, 2009 06:13 PM)
The history of Timms' character suggests he was modeled after Lieutenant General Leslie Groves, who was the officer in charge of Project Manhattan. Groves was trained as an engineer, he built the Pentagon prior to heading Project Manhattan. And heading the postwar atomic program would require some technical background. So expecting Timms to be portrayed as MacArthur or Patton would be not be consistent with his character. Then again, Groves himself was known to be very impatient with the "egghead" scientists who developed the atomic bomb. One of the reasons he chose Oppenheimer as chief scientist was because he seemed the most practical and dedicated to getting results of all the world-class scientists involved in the project.
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mobocracy — 20 years ago(July 19, 2005 06:23 AM)
It's hard to think of films with large, high-quality ensemble casts that don't suck.
In this case, though, I think it had more to do with the writing than anything else. I found the idea of four of LAPD's toughest detectives riding around together in a convertable somewhat comical, and Chaz Palminteri's psychiatrist bit was so against type as to undermine type. We only got a couple of other opportunities to see the mobster squad at work, and it was over-the-top punchouts.
It also lacked meaningful sub-plot(s); the entire story revolved around the dead girl. Shouldn't there have been some LA-based subterfuge? Linking the girl to the mob, Nolte's character and Malkovich's character would have meant more since it might have undermined Nolte's career.
I also found Nolte's relationship with his wife to be far too maudlin; either he's indifferent enough to sleep with Jennifer Connelly "every chance he gets" or he's in love with his wife; both doesn't cut it. -
inoldhollywood — 20 years ago(August 25, 2005 01:02 PM)
I liked that you actually make some well-thought-out points about why you did not like Mulholland Falls, and I respect what you had to say. Like you, I also think it might have been better to move beyond the dead girl and make it a grander scheme beneath. Chinatown moved beyond the Evelyn Mulray imposter and with each successive twist, the story beneath the story became more about what the movie was all about. That is exceptional writing.
Okay, now not all ensemble cast films suck. here are a few I thought of
It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World
The Longest Day
Judgement at Nurenburg
The ones that sucked? Yeah, I can also think of plenty that were pretty horrible..
Earthquake
The Conqueror
Pepe
and there are lots more in each catagory. -
savcam500 — 15 years ago(November 27, 2010 11:06 AM)
Concerning other great ensemble casts. It is certainly a hard thing to successfully pull off as I'm sure egos come into play, especially as it concerns screen time. I'm sure it's quite difficult to wrangle all the actors and keep them from chewing the scenery to pieces.
Other great or successful Ensemble Films I think would include:
Glenngary Glenn Ross.
(One of my favourite films.)
The Long Riders.
The Deer Hunter.
The Dirty Dozen.
The Usual Suspects.
(Though it may be argued that many of the actors were unknowns at the time. It depends on what definition of "ensemble cast" one uses. Either a film in which all the main characters are given equal importance to the plot or story, or merely an "all star" cast. The former seems to be correct in the world of film, while the latter sees colloquial usage.)
The Breakfast Club.
The Magnificent Seven.
The Seven Samurai.
Crash.
(Though I didn't like the film, I can recognise it as being a well put together, well thought out and very successful film.)
Traffic.
(Or just cursorily interconnected stories. But again, an "all star" cast of actors.)
Murder on the Orient Express.
The Thin Red Line.
Once Upon a Time in the West.
(Though here it may be argued that the story merely revolved around the three main characters, and were connected by Claudia Cardinal's character and circumstance.)
Pulp Fiction
&
Reservoir Dogs.
(Though these may again just be separate, but interconnected-albeit disjointed- stories of a few main characters. Reservoir Dogs is perhaps a better example.)
The Great Escape.
And finally, the
Ocean's #
series, though I
hate hate hate
these films and they
bore bore bore
me. Really I only saw the first two, so maybe the third film pulls them all together and redeems the first two. They were just mindless, pandering films that sought audiences by being "star-studded" and by having quick action and "witty" dialogue. But I'm not here to foist my opinions off on anyone, I just could not abide these movies.
I find the
Ocean's
films silly, pointless and plot-less; instead of a clever twist (which all films seemingly MUST have these days
) or a logical denouement, the writers just seem to resort to the
deus ex machina
style of writing that seems so prevalent in recent years. I can best describe
Ocean's 11
as
Heat
but instead of automatic weapons, a top-notch team of professional thieves, and a great plan (foiled only by Danny Trejo) they use witty dialogue and their boyish good looks to pull off their heists. Ah!! I'm adding
Heat
to the list of great ensemble films
Heat.