THE PREMISE IS A CROCK !!!!!
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — G.I. Jane
blondinii — 18 years ago(January 15, 2008 10:28 AM)
DO NOT GET ME WRONG I LOVE AND ADMIRE WOMEN BUT NOT IN THE SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES.SOF - are the top 2-3% of troops in - shooting, running, swimming, strength, climbing, hand-to-hand, endurance, mental toughness/tactics, et al. They have typically been through other very hard training programs before - jump and/or ranger school and are honors grads. This top 2-3% is always -MALE.
Women do an excellent job in noncombat roles and have improved the military in admin, customer svs roles, etc. I am retired military and have seen the ways women have improved the DOD when I came back as a DOD contractor recently. The current problems are keeping women out of combat zone deployments for humane reasons - new babies, sick family, etc. The Amazons who enjoyed the Desert -OEF/OIF- deployments I actually came to admire.
I light sparred with a young lady E-4 who was the OIF womens' boxing champ. Despite my being +25 years her senior it quickly became apparent that when I could catch her I could drop her with ease - if I had wanted to. She had the mobility - I the + 120 lb weight advantage. I admired her game attitude though - in the ring and in the field with an M-4 escorting contractors. As greatly as I admired the girl she was still not an SF candidate.
Other countries have tried to use women in SOF roles before it did not work for: the Brits, Isreal, or USSR. I know they have used some women in sniper-USSR WW II - and security - Isreal; but SF is a whole other kettle of fish. It is like the NFL - women can play football but they cannot compete with the best of the best males physically and win. Infantry in history - yes SF - no.
As far as helping her career - SOF is generally a career grave yard - at least in years past. Most men in SOF are busy training, or on missions, with the fleet or in the air. They are not doing the sort of bs programs that get command notice. SOF is on a need to know basis so SOF is "out of sight and out of mind." Many excellent SF troops retire at Major vs Lt Col or Bird- O-6 - 1-2 grades/ranks behind the pencil pushers.
It is still unlawful for women to be in direct combat MOSs in the US. In SOF small unit operations, the weakest link can get an entire unit killed - no is left behind. The men of SOF must be able to carry a wounded 220 lb buddy on their back - both in full 80 lbs of gear for miles if necessary. Could Demi do that even with all her spa hours ???? Be realistic. Who on this board is another SOF vet ???
Demi whipping the Chief is also a crock. I was beating female black belts in Dojo sparring in my teens as a Yellow belt. I was not the best male in the Dojo either- at that point. This is why sports are generally gender segregated - even in marksmanship. Women have actually WON NRA Open competitions but it is as rare as a space shuttle disaster.
SOF is in all three major branches USN, USA, and USAF as well as in the USMC which is a corp of the Navy - recon. I like ladies and am married to a former NOW local officer; but most of the lady posters are civilians with very little knowledge of the military. You may have seen a film or had an uncle in the service but I hope you will not argue that that confers expertise upon you.
There is also the MEO factor. Female military members are trained to make a bee line for MEO, if they dislike a male's jokes or his passing on a naughty e-mail with a Jay Leno joke on it. The MEO = the military EEOC. Men have lost their military careers over off color jokes, much less the conduct exhibited in this film. To allow such conduct to occur in your command would end careers up to the admiral/flag ranks. I have seen this happen in the military and law enforcement.
In the real world the Chief would have been court martialed for conduct unbecoming an NCO, abuse of authority, and aggrevated sexual battery. He would then spend years in Portsmouth or Charleston Brig. -
info-4857 — 18 years ago(January 19, 2008 01:31 PM)
I've never been in the military and I'm just an average joe from the UK but I fully agree with you. I don't know the logistics behind it but a womans physical frame is incapable of doing some of the things I can do in the gym, never mind humping a pack full of sh!t up a large hill.
In tests of strength a woman against a man is like a teenage boy against a man they may be quick and fast but one good hit and it's over that's tragic and sad but a total fact. It's why most womens martial arts are designed for a quick strike to the nut or nerve point and then flee, never jab, cross, hook.
My girlfriend had a hard time fighting off one of my mates when he's pinning her down and the guys stick thin. We just have more muscle to the frame an stronger muscle at that.
It really comes down to is there a point? I find a lot of women do stuff simply to prove a point.
Still it's a fun concept for a film though and I guess you take it with a pinch of salt. -
pgrass13 — 18 years ago(March 01, 2008 09:39 PM)
I agree in a sense. Although I have known women who an copmete on a level with men. I was on a coed soccer team in high school and some of the girls were better than a lot of the guys.
Same thing we do every night try to take over the world -
ashes_to_autumn — 17 years ago(March 24, 2009 12:09 PM)
Most people on this thread, and many commenting on the film in general, seem to be missing the point that this film, and associated feminist arguments, are trying to make. People should be judged on their qualities and traits alone rather than simply their gender, or whatever qualities and traits their gender implies. It is NOT logical to say that most women cannot compete with most men on a physical level therefore women should not be aloud to partake in physical activities such as the armed forces or SOF. It IS logical to say that if a woman (OR MAN) cannot demonstrate the physical qualities and traits necessary for such things then they should not be aloud to partake in them, for reasons of political correctness or otherwise. The problem that male characters in the film have with Demi Moore's character is based on the former, flawed, categorical, backward logic: Women are generally not capable of joining the SOF, O'Neil is a woman, therefore she is not capable. If no woman has ever done such a thing, it does not mean that no woman can or ever will. The category of sex is simply too vast to base such assumptions on. It is similar as saying 'no man will ever connect with his child as well as its mother': there is biological basis for it, but it no categorical link involved such as in a true statement like 'no man can give birth'.
Therefore it is not unrealistic for O'Neil to cope with the training seen on-screen, for its is presented as being very unlikely, as it is in reality: that is why the premise is intriguing. Most films are based on unlikelihoods; a film presenting the likely events of general reality as exactly experienced in real life would be completely uninteresting. This is part of the reason the term and concept 'realism' is redundant.
O'Neil does not 'win' against the Master Chief in terms of a physical contest. She gets in a few good hits, but only has any real advantage at all once she has the morale backing of the rest of the trainess and demonstrates her adequacy by retaining her physical and mental strength: thus meaning Master Chief has no further reaosn to master her physically (which clearly he could, easily, if he really wanted to).