THE PREMISE IS A CROCK !!!!!
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pgrass13 — 18 years ago(March 01, 2008 09:39 PM)
I agree in a sense. Although I have known women who an copmete on a level with men. I was on a coed soccer team in high school and some of the girls were better than a lot of the guys.
Same thing we do every night try to take over the world -
ashes_to_autumn — 17 years ago(March 24, 2009 12:09 PM)
Most people on this thread, and many commenting on the film in general, seem to be missing the point that this film, and associated feminist arguments, are trying to make. People should be judged on their qualities and traits alone rather than simply their gender, or whatever qualities and traits their gender implies. It is NOT logical to say that most women cannot compete with most men on a physical level therefore women should not be aloud to partake in physical activities such as the armed forces or SOF. It IS logical to say that if a woman (OR MAN) cannot demonstrate the physical qualities and traits necessary for such things then they should not be aloud to partake in them, for reasons of political correctness or otherwise. The problem that male characters in the film have with Demi Moore's character is based on the former, flawed, categorical, backward logic: Women are generally not capable of joining the SOF, O'Neil is a woman, therefore she is not capable. If no woman has ever done such a thing, it does not mean that no woman can or ever will. The category of sex is simply too vast to base such assumptions on. It is similar as saying 'no man will ever connect with his child as well as its mother': there is biological basis for it, but it no categorical link involved such as in a true statement like 'no man can give birth'.
Therefore it is not unrealistic for O'Neil to cope with the training seen on-screen, for its is presented as being very unlikely, as it is in reality: that is why the premise is intriguing. Most films are based on unlikelihoods; a film presenting the likely events of general reality as exactly experienced in real life would be completely uninteresting. This is part of the reason the term and concept 'realism' is redundant.
O'Neil does not 'win' against the Master Chief in terms of a physical contest. She gets in a few good hits, but only has any real advantage at all once she has the morale backing of the rest of the trainess and demonstrates her adequacy by retaining her physical and mental strength: thus meaning Master Chief has no further reaosn to master her physically (which clearly he could, easily, if he really wanted to). -
dvizzl — 18 years ago(March 27, 2008 08:01 PM)
All right, all right, I'll bite on this one.
What's the big deal with not allowing women into the SF's anyway? Couldn't there be at least a -chance- of a woman being strong/athletic/ enough to pass the tests? Yeah yeah, we're built differently, whatever, but who's to say there couldn't be some miracle speciman of a woman who could succeed? I mean, I've seen me some big women, and we're not talking fat.
Sure all the hype and drama of the movie helps to make it entertaining, but I think the real core point of the movie is that woman should have the option. Demi's character even says it
: Not that she would want the life that comes with passing her training. She just wants the right to choose it. Enough with the stereotypical BS, if a woman wants to try out and can succeed she should be let in. -
davidec1984 — 17 years ago(May 17, 2008 02:28 PM)
The trouble with saying "women should be given the chance" is that you spend the money taking them on these very expensive courses for the infantry, artillery, armour, combat engineer and special forces roles etc, and what happens? The overwhelmingly vast majority of them fall out, assuming the standards are the same. OK, do those few extra soldiers make it worth it? Perhaps, but they're going to be nothing more than average-to-poor soldiers who would have better careers anyway in women's sports. Plus, you get headaches about logistics - gotta pack tampons and OB-GYNs with the 5.56 now - and you get headaches about intra-unit relationships, friction, etc. The latter point should be non-existent with professionalism but it is still a niggle.
Add all these up and it essentially constitutes a lot of headaches for very little gain.