Bills daughter is the key to this movie
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SavageBeauty — 9 years ago(May 27, 2016 12:47 PM)
I respect all sorts of different opinions, as long as you have basis in your opinion (and yours is based on what exactly?).
It would be great if you could respect other opinions on fictional movies.
If you have studied drama 101 or even fictional writing in grade school, you would have learned our stories are based on Greek drama. It's common knowledge for story-telling in the Western world.
Regarding the troll bit, I think it's not so much the difference in opinion, it's the nasty and silly way certain people express their opinions. I am not into name calling. If the conversation goes nowhere, that's OK. If someone else gets something out of it, that's great, but I'm not too invested emotionally. Have fun getting all worked up over nothing! -
christomacin — 9 years ago(May 30, 2016 06:05 AM)
Nice little insult slipped in with the "grade school" bit.
It's not an insult. It's an observation based on the maturity level you are displaying.
I do respect others opinions, but I don't have to agree with them.
True, but you do have to defend you opinions in an intelligent and rebut the opinions of others in an intelligent manner. This is a discussion board, after all, and the object is to discuss things. -
ninjafish007 — 9 years ago(November 27, 2016 01:42 AM)
Saw mention of Helena holding up dolls at the toy store in the final scene but think it important to note exactly which kind of doll she is holding and the significance of her holding the doll (apologies if this is covered elsewhere among these threads). The cut to Helena holding the doll, smiling, is rather stark and abrupt- it interrupts Alice and Bill's conversation both vocally ("Look Mommy!"), and visually (It is the first cut in the scene and the only cut away from Alice and Bill's conversation. All others cut back and forth between Alice and Bill speaking to each other). It is also the only shot in the scene that does not include both Bill and Alice, or only Bill, or only Alice. The camera lingers on Helena for two seconds sans any discernible dialogue. I think all of this signifies the importance of this one shot.
She is holding a Barbie doll.- It is a Sugar Plum Fairy Barbie doll with an image of a nutcracker on its packaging. This ties directly to the other nutcracker references in the film.
- A Barbie dolls are unique in that they are some of the few dolls for children to play with that are not baby dolls. They are adult women dolls. Known and criticized for being overly sexualized (statuesque, blonde, unrealistic proportions, etc.). If Helena is indeed to be pawned off to the elite, then she will be seen by them as nothing but a human doll to play with. She is essentially holding up a doll and showing her parents what she is about to become. Placed above all the fairy Barbies is a Barbie dressed in a bright red, much more seductive, dress.
The story of the nutcracker can easily be subverted into something nefarious. Seemingly innocent things are often subverted in Kubrick films (The Mickey Mouse Club theme, Here's Johnny, Singin' in the Rain, etc.). In the nutcracker story, we essentially have a grown adult prince whisking a small girl away from her family and home, through a pine forest (akin to a certain grove?) and into a world full of fairies and snowflakes and chocolates etc. Should the two old men abduct Helena, they will be luring her into their world with toys, and candies and lovely things that young girls would enjoy. The transitioning of a young girl into the role of play doll for elite white males probably includes an indoctrination period where the girl is given lots of toys and sweets and lovely things, all the while being groomed and transformed from "child-like fairy" doll into sexy, adult doll (doll in red dress that sits atop the fairy dolls).
The Nutcracker ballet also has a strong link to human-like slave dolls Drosselmeyer has created human-like doll "slaves" that dance upon his command.
There are also two gold Barbie boxes with star cut-outs it would be beneficial to know more about this particular doll and if it holds any significance. Are there any Barbie aficionados in the house?
PS.
Just a thought. As the trio passes the baby doll carriages at the onset of the scene, Helena really takes a shine to one and Alice remarks, almost discouragingly, "It's old fashioned." Obviously, the carriage itself is old fashioned, but perhaps the line itself could contain a double meaning that Alice is stating the role of mother caring for child is "old-fashioned," trying to dissuade her daughter from imaging herself in that lifestyle (since she knows that's not what's in store for her future). Maybe that's a stretch though.
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jaseace — 9 years ago(November 28, 2016 09:48 AM)
Just a thought..at the end in the dept store, during that last bit of dialogue..The last line of the movie, the fact that so much has been discussed about the daughter Helena possibly being abducted.. Nicole kidman says something similar to "there is one im portant thing we have to do right away, fucx" and the movie ends. Most people think she is talking about her and bill having sex, could it be that instead they lost track of Helena and she is saying Fuxk, as in fuxk where is our daughterone last thing wr need to do.. They look around for Helena and shes gone like oh beep shes gone.. Kind of makes you wonder and it changes the meaning of that last line a dialogue significantly.
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The_Baba — 9 years ago(November 29, 2016 02:28 PM)
Haha wow I like the sound of that. I mean for a film that was teased to be all about sex but ended up being an odyssey of revelations, there has to be more to the ending than just ''lets have sex''.
http://www.imdb.com/list/_OaGg-zdQKo/ -
Xav6101 — 9 years ago(November 30, 2016 01:57 AM)
Actually and factually this is the exact transcript.
What do I think?
I don't know.
I mean, maybe
Maybe I think
we should be grateful.
Grateful
that we've managed to
survive through all of our
adventures
whether they were real
or only a dream.
Are you sure of that?
Am I sure?
Only as sure as I am
that the reality of one night
let alone that of a whole lifetime
can ever be the whole truth.
And no dream is ever
just a dream.
The important thing is
we're awake now
and hopefully
for a long time to come.
Forever.
Forever?
Forever.
Let's not use that word. You know?
It frightens me.
But I do love you
and you know
there is something very important
that we need
to do as soon as possible.
What's that?
F |_| C K.
Credo quia absurdum -
Barbed_Wire_Strawberry — 9 years ago(November 30, 2016 12:57 PM)
There is no way that line is meant to be in reference to Helena wandering off. The daughter they have let out of their sight, the toy store, X-Mas time, the unsatisfied desires and psycho-secrets all contribute to the feeling of the delivery of that line - a nihilistic statement for our age: F!ck (as in F!ck it).
Buy The Ticket, Take The Ride
