This part never made any sense to me, how was he recognized by the other guests at the party?
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melchior6 — 9 years ago(December 19, 2016 11:14 AM)
Or perhaps the cult members are familiar with the costumes enough to recognize that a newcomer was in their midst by not being familiar with Bill's.
Precisely,not to mention that Bill came a while after the ceremony had already started, and stood apart from the crowd, which made him conspicuous -
Mustanaamio — 9 years ago(December 13, 2016 02:40 PM)
Some people at the party saw Cruise's character without a mask, and he was also the only one who arrived by taxi. If I am correct, they also found some Dr. Harford's stuff from his jacket that exposed him or something.
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DepheatingRub — 9 years ago(December 13, 2016 03:19 PM)
They saw him at the door without his mask.
As I've tried to make people here realize in the past, to no avail, Bill gave himself away with the word "Fidelio". Where did he get it? From the piano player the hired help. He entered with the staff password, through the guest entrance.
Straight off, that's two giant mistakes. The guards aren't authorized to stop anyone with a password, but they surely notified people that this strange thing occurred. From the moment he entered, Bill was on their radar. -
DepheatingRub — 9 years ago(December 14, 2016 09:28 AM)
What makes you think they weren't signaled? Bills jig was up when he came in -> he was being observed while he explored -> the hosts were informed of his infiltration. Its logical for me to follow that reasoning to some tip off: an underling giving them a sign indicating 'this is the one '
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LetThemEatCake01 — 9 years ago(December 14, 2016 11:03 AM)
ThE fidelio theory makes sense but I am specifically talking about the couple at the balcony that recognize him. There is nothing in the film or that particular scene that implies or suggests they were alerted about his identity.
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Barbed_Wire_Strawberry — 9 years ago(December 14, 2016 01:38 PM)
On a practical level:
He was seen on camera outside the gates.
Arrived by taxi (taxi still waiting outside).
Rental receipt.
Once they got the name (as soon as he entered) Bill's connection with Ziegler, Mandy and Nick would be exposed.
On a thematic level:
He doesn't 'belong'. The mental issue of his repression/anxiety is producing dual desires to be exposed as well as remain secretive. Being exposed at Somerton thematically is tied to many other moments in the film (Alice's confession, the frat boys, Ziegler/Mandy, Domino etc). It's an issue of being exposed or
saving face
.
Buy The Ticket, Take The Ride -
LetThemEatCake01 — 9 years ago(December 19, 2016 09:19 PM)
It's ok, it's called storytelling, if you introduce a plot point you are supposed to resolve it. Kubrick didn't do that, hence why his films are unbearable and entirely forgotten about by most people outside of this insufferable clique.
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LetThemEatCake01 — 9 years ago(December 20, 2016 09:16 AM)
Not at all, in all my years watching films, true films mind you, I've come to realize that Kubrick belongs to the Bieber and Bay crowd that fashions themselves to be intelligent. But they truly are not.
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melchior6 — 9 years ago(December 19, 2016 11:34 AM)
ThE fidelio theory makes sense but I am specifically talking about the couple at the balcony that recognize him.
There is nothing that irrefutably implies that they recognized who he was, rather they took notice of him because he stood out. And one tested him with a simple nod as if it were some type cryptic sign of recognition among members, a nice little ruse which Bill fell for when he nodded back. From then on they were watching him closelyMy theory.
But a better question, is how the hell did Mandy recognize him?? -
Barbed_Wire_Strawberry — 9 years ago(December 19, 2016 02:04 PM)
What is interesting is that there are two of the blank masked men (one on the balcony, one below during that scene) - one of them 'offers' a woman (that sounds quite like Domino) to Bill..
Buy The Ticket, Take The Ride -
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KutWrite — 9 years ago(December 20, 2016 02:05 PM)
I doubt it's a Kubrick error. Like him or not, he meticulously plotted out every scene of every movie. If you see the documentary "Kubrick's Boxes," you will see just how much research and planning went into every nuance. Also, interviews with anyone who worked with him.
Given that, and some of the insightful answers above, here's my theory:- I agree with others that "Fidelio" was not the "insider" password. Only one, or maybe a handful, of the "help" had it, and they were all accounted for. So, they knew to check his pockets.
- He arrived at the gate, and door, without mask. That was probably a huge tipoff. Now, Ziegler did know a bunch of the mucky-mucks who were also members, but then, he was no doubt invited to join.
- "The Nod from the balcony:" It could've been just a reassurance to an obviously new member. Or, word could've quickly gone out via whispers who the interloper was. I think it was the former, and that it was Ziegler and his lady for the evening. They probably discussed the problem of Bill intruding and knew what was to happen.
- "Nod," cont'd: Another reason for it could've been: "We know you're not one of us, watch what we do about it." Bill's mask was bought at a costume shop. The others all had a design theme. How do I know? Because in the credits, the designer was of "Venetian masks," and the Trivia section shows Kubrick selected them from a previous production about a ball in Venice. Bill's mask, however, was designed for this movie, and modeled after Ryan O'Neal's face. So, maybe the couple on the balcony thought they recognized Ryan O'Neal! (kidding)
- "Nod," cont'd: As a filmmaker, Kubrick might also have been showing us that Bill had no idea how to respond to any of this; how far out of his element he was. He had the twin feelings of fear of being recognized, vs how to respond to a possible signal among members. Thus, putting US off guard.
- Mandy's "redemption" of Bill: I believe Ziegler that the whole thing was staged. She was substituted, remember, as his consort, then Bill was removed before anything could happen. Now whether she was drugged on purpose, or not, I don't know. But I suspect she was, in fact, an addict. As a former beauty queen, she had, in a way, sunk very low to be a consort for hire at these parties, and for the likes of Ziegler. So depression and dependence could have taken their toll.
In any case, I doubt Bill's recognition is any lapse on Kubrick's part. It may not even be material, just something to set a tone of nervousness on our part.
The important thing was, the mucky-mucks recognized him as an intruder, quickly found out who he was, and wanted to throw a scare into him, which they did.
Ziegler, probably under orders, also had him followed to ensure he didn't cause any damage.
Same with Nick, who probably loathed the moment he trusted Bill with the password.
I wondered what they did with/to the cab driver to ensure his silence.