Harsh on Percy?
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rickb69 — 11 years ago(March 27, 2015 10:04 AM)
I actually thought that the prison guards were more 'harsh' on Percy - When Percy was talking scornfully to the dead body, I didn't see why Brute had to be a 'white knight' on Percy by telling him off (you hypocrite, you were also involved at executing him)
Brutal was just doing his job. Percy said to the dead prisoner "Send us a post card from hell and let us know if it is hot enough for you." Brutal said the prisoner paid his debt to society and that he was square
Del was remorseful when he was in the electric chair and he said don't forget about Mouseville. Percy said there is no Mouseville, that the other guards only told him that fairytale to keep him quiet. Harry looked like WTF. Percy didn't wet the sponge when he put it on Del's head and Del literally fried to death instead of being electrocuted
And if that had not happened, he would've been in prison - which is a worse punishment than being in mental facility I say, no? Oh, in prison for killing a cold blooded murderer!
Percy also killed wild Bill in cold blood, granted wild Bill was a murderer. Wild Bill was on death row and would have been executed
Percy was overall bratty. But the guards seemed overly harsh on him, considering that he was only assaulting prisoners on death row rather than innocent hospital patients. They should've thought about that a little.
The prisoners are already on death row, that doesn't give Percy the right to assault them
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MissTexasMcCoy — 12 years ago(February 13, 2014 01:41 PM)
I feel the same way you do. People who have not read the book, and have only seen the film, seem to find it much easier to like and feel sorry for Del, and hate Percy. The book describes both characters somewhat differently. In the book, Del is in prison because he raped and murdered a young woman, then tried to hide her body by setting it on fire behind the building she lived in. The building caught on fire and killed six more people, two of which were children. Stephen King describes Percy in the book similarly to the movie, but in the book the impression given is more that Percy is just a cocky, annoying young man who has an abrasive attitude and gets a big head trip out of being in law enforcement. He is a jerk, but the book didn't really make me
hate
him the way the movie tries to. SK also explains that Del's crime is one of the major reasons Percy hated him so much.
For John Coffey to
harm
Percy in the end seemed out of place to me. John was a miracle healer, it was not in his nature to harm anyone or anything.
Some people on this board like to make some sort of an analogy between John Coffey and Jesus Christ, I personally don't buy into that theory. SK isn't really one to go into theology all that much, and he doesn't hint at any such thing in the book. When I first saw this movie, when John grabbed Percy,
I honesly thought at first that John was going to "fix" Percy and turn him into a better person.
I do agree with you, it seemed strange and extreme for Percy to be given the fate he was. I know many people disagree with me on that, but that's just what I think.
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"I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way"
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pentacleman — 11 years ago(April 12, 2014 02:21 PM)
Well, bear in mind that Jesus, though a healer and a man of compassion, was also able and willing to draw a hard line against the forces of evil. He grew enraged and ran the moneychangers out of the synagogue, he rebuked Legion and remorselessly cast the demons out of the possessed man, and he snapped at Simon Peter when the latter drew a sword and injured the slave of one of the Romans who had come to arrest Jesus.
So it seems that John Coffey has that side of Jesus in him as well. Most of the time he's like Saint Christopher, gently and compassionately helping those in need. But when he's confronted with a wicked heart like that of Percy or Wild Bill, that's when he turns into Michael the Archangel. Does that make sense? -
TheFatDruidofNacyl — 12 years ago(February 14, 2014 12:30 AM)
In regards to what Del did he did get executed for his crimes. Especially with the sponge not being wet and having a more painful and horrific death. Del did regret what he did and would want to repent for his actions. He even went to his execution knowing it had to be done instead of crying about it or trying to get out of it.
Percy was a cruel and sadistic person that pushed other people around and acted like a spoiled brat just because he had connections. He enjoyed the suffering of others plus the fact he was stupid and cowardly. If he wasn't turned into a vegetable he could have ended up harming himself or another person because of his future actions.
Not only do I think his punishment fits but it is also a kindness. A far greater kindness than John got for being at the wrong place at the wrong time.
I also wonder if he didn't get turned into a vegetable if his family could have helped him get away with murder.
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oilinblood — 12 years ago(March 08, 2014 04:27 AM)
Not sure if OP understands what a psychopath is.
The most interesting thing was Wild Bill attacking Percy. Percy is not very much different from Wild Bill hes just inexperienced. Its not only in the acts by Percy, its the things he saysenough of which were kept for the film as to make it abundantly clear Percy is a psychopath. And as wild bill insinuates through observation, after handling Percy, that Percys freezing during the attempted breakout/strangling was more in part to his interests and his "noodle" than any real want for the situation to end. Percy is just new to italot of psychopaths prefer jobs where they are in charge of others who need assistance. Percy also has a sister whose more powerful than himwhich might also be something.
Basically he is psychopath with a badge. And as wild bill and the guards would agree He is the piss pants pussy of the psychopath world. There is good reason percy goes in the straight jacket and into a padded roomand why his last destination/punishment is to be a vegetable in a mental hospital where likely half the staff have some level of psychopathic thoughts.
I think some people might want to see psychiatrists if they feel percy was mistreated. -
zeeboe82 — 12 years ago(March 27, 2014 09:52 AM)
I reread the book recently, and the script. I've rethought some things and regret what I posted. I can't type that I agree with you about the death penalty or that conservatives have low I.Q's however. Sounds like liberal hogwash.
If prisoners are on death row, I agree with Edgecomb's philosophy on keeping the inmates calm and treating them humanely as long as they obey the rules. They are there to die after all, so punishing them anymore then what is necessary is useless and cruel.
I just feel bad whenever one person is singled out by a group, but Percy was wrong with his choices and didn't belong on the Green Mile.
Paul Edgecomb believed in the death penalty too, but he never allowed his personal opinions to interfere with his duties.
I suspect John Coffey knew something about Percy that the others didn't because in the book he refers to Percy as a "bad man" just like he called Wild Bill a "bad man". In the film, he calls them both "bad men".
Paul Edgecomb however is a very good man. He's tough, but fair. He's a great leader. He didn't put up with any of Wild Bill's nonsense and he allowed Percy to shout "Dead Man Walking!", but I suspect if Paul hadn't told him to stop, who knows how long Percy would have kept shouting. He also stopped Brutal twice from giving Percy a beat down. Paul and the guards also clearly had sympathy for Percy when he wet himself. Brutal even told Del to learn when to shut up after Del laughed at Percy, so they are all good men who don't put up with any nonsense.
They are all good examples of how us men should be - Tough, but compassionate and fair who only resort to violence when it's only the last resort. -
efigalaxie — 11 years ago(April 03, 2015 02:54 PM)
Nothing_Is_Forever
I take great exception to your line of lunacy. A proven fact conservatives have a lower IQ.. Right. How about an idiot that believes anything Obama Says??? How about those that blindly follow ANY politician. Liberals in the classic mode may be as you state. However, those whom call themselves liberals today are mostly hypocrites. Today's liberal believes in free expression - as long as it is acceptable to him.
I am with you on the drug issue. Torture??? My God Man!! These Islamic wackos are busy cutting people's heads off, and you are worried about a little water dribbled up a terrorists nose???
The constitution??? All big government types like shredding that. Most politicians are bought and sold long before gaining national prominence.
Here is a thought. Today's liberals decry loss of liberty at the hand of government while all the time handing government more power. Does that seem very SMART to you??
I have a suggestion. Google 'Frederic Bastiat's The Law.' That little tome is not very long. A literate person can get through it in a couple hours. Mr. Bastiat delineates the only real function of government.
Finally - Get your head out of a categorization's arse and think for yourself. Question your own beliefs. Follow them to their logical conclusions. -
infonically — 12 years ago(March 29, 2014 01:03 PM)
We are asked by this movie to believe in the reality of evil. There are good people and bad people and JC can see who is which. Disease and injury, as some sort of anti-life forces, are of the same kind as the evil in human beings like WIld Bill and Percy. And the substance of evil even becomes visible as
a swarm of flies - or whatever those small black things are- when JC "takes it out".
We are so used to the idea that we human beings are the proper judges of other people, though the legal system and the court of public opinion, that it can be hard to accept this. Earlier, more religious societies thought than only God could look into men's hearts and judge them for who they are. In the movie JC has this ability, and so seeks to do good by removing evil. For him, it is not the human consequences of his actions, judged in our terms, that are important. Since we are incapable of perceiving evil directly, we are blind to the reality in which he lives. For the most part, we judge that actions removing evil are "good" in our terms too, but in the case of what happened to Percy, we are not so sure and start asking questions about whether he "deserved" it. I don't think JC would have seen it in those terms at all. Pushing the example to the limit, it would have been conceivable, although dramatically unacceptable, for Percy to have had the evil inside him without ever doing anything cruel or worthy of punishment, or at least being much less cruel than shown in the movie, and that JC would have treated him the same. [And this gap between what he can know and what we can know is the danger of a metaphysics of evil that is perceivable only by some special people - it can easily be abused, as the history of religious persecution shows us.] The treatment of WIld BIll also shows that JC was motivated only by the eradication of evil not by "punishment" as such. After all, WB is on death row. He is going to die soon by electrocution - hardly a lesser punishment than being shot by Percy
. JC just couldn't stand the presence of evil,
so much so that he welcomed his own death, not because he was tired of life (as Paul appears to be at the end of the movie) but because there was too much evil in the world for him to bear.
Despite our admiration for the "good men" of the story, their humanity and courage, and the burst of joy we feel at
seeing an old mouse defying death
, the underlying vision is very bleak. We live in a world in which evil is everywhere and we lack even JC's ability to see it clearly let alone remove it.
- when JC "takes it out".
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Bernnard_Black — 11 years ago(June 02, 2014 10:03 AM)
I can understand why people would question why Coffey would do what he did, but I have no real problem with it.
In the books, they make several things abundantly clear about Percy:
1: He doesn't care about anyone but himself. He routinely threatens people he disliked with "the breadlines", and in the Depression-era south, that was a BIG threat.
2: He is abusive to the prisoners not because he hates their crimes, but because he enjoys being mean and abusive. Percy likes being mean, and working in a prison is a perfect way to practice that because it's less likely that he'd be questioned or called out for it.
3: Percy is not afraid to do something wrong; he is only afraid of being caught doing something wrong. "Getting in trouble" is something he tries to avoid, usually through his family connections.
4: Percy hated Delacroix with a passion. Even Paul didn't quite understand WHY this was; he just recognized it was true.
5: Percy knew exactly what would happen with the dry sponge, because he was told. He'd been asking Van Hay, the guy who usually flipped the switch, to tell him all about what the sponge was for and what would happen if it wasn't wet. One reason he puts in for his transfer as quickly as he does is to get out of there before anyone finds out he was asking so many questions about it before the execution took place.
Given Percy's behavior and personality, I think he'd have been even worse at the mental hospital, where the patients would have no protection at allnot even the "release" of execution. Percy is like a cruel child poking a cat with a stick or burning ants with a magnifying glass. He wants to see what happens. But in his case, he's practicing his perversions on people, not animals. He chose to be a death row guard for a reasonhe wanted to see someone electrocuted up close and in person. If he finds that fun, you have to wonder what kind of sick sh!t he'd do in mental hospital.
So I think Coffey KNEW what Percy was like, possibly better than anyone else, and didn't want him to be turned loose on a hospital full of people who couldn't protect themselves. So, he did what he could to stop it, short of actually hurting or killing him. He's no longer a threat to anyone, and never will be.
Here's to the health of Cardinal Puff. -
oantonio — 11 years ago(November 07, 2014 09:10 PM)
The movie makes it seem like Percy was being bullied by the other guards. I guess you cant show everything from the book in a movie, but the guy was constantly threatening the other characters to have them fired for any little thing he didnt like (in a time where just having a job was like being rich).
Also in the book, when Del (a small guy) just arrived at the mile, Percy beat him senseless for no reason at all. I think he did that just to have fun and because he could. Percy himself was small, so he enjoyed torturing weaker beings than him. It was heavily implied (if not outright stated on the book), that Percy would have tortured the mental patients for his own amusement, had him being moved there (the old Paul framing story had a modern day Percy torturing him later on the book, being all "you cant do anything about it because Ill just say you had dementia).
In short, I think Percy was a more sinister and threatening character in the book, while still being quite pathetic. Just before reaching the point where Coffey infects him, I was hoping for him to just die (maybe being killed by Wharton). What happened was almost better: he survived, but unable to hurt anyone anymore (only Billy that is).
Also, I think Will Bill was much more threatening in the book, in the movie he almost seems like comic relief (until the reveal of course).