Angelovs
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AlekaXRequiem — 16 years ago(July 13, 2009 09:19 PM)
Fair enough but the reason why I ask is because
- I grew up with a lot of Peruvian, argentinian, south american, spanish folk and they sound more like Jimmy when he speaks english than -
- my Boyfriend who is Bulgarian and neither him nor any of his family members sound anything like this.
I think it may have been a cop out because the majority of people in the world have no idea what Bulgarians sound like, they wanted him to have a certain mysterious look but also wanted him to have some familiare sounding sexy accent thus a spanish accent with a slight russian twinge..
Its like when theres a New Zealander character on a film, played by someone who isn't kiwi- they have a certain look but always seem to sound Australian.
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koraleyendra — 16 years ago(July 16, 2009 07:27 PM)
Directly from IMDb trivia section "The character Jimmy Angelov was originally named Jimmy Hawkins, and was a Texas redneck. The part was rewritten as Eastern European for Goran Visnjic after director Griffin Dunne saw him in Welcome to Sarajevo (1997) and Madonna's "Power of Goodbye" video."
The actor Goran Visnjic is originally from Croatia which is not far from Bulgaria. His accent couldn't be more authentic. -
AlekaXRequiem — 16 years ago(July 16, 2009 11:53 PM)
Jimmy Hawkins (Like Jim Hawkins from 'Treasure Island' funny)
Just because Croatia is not far from Bulgaria doesn't mean that his accent is authentic.
Thats like saying, people from Northern Ireland sound the same as Southern Ireland. Or New Zealand and Australian accents are the same -just cos they're close to eachother doesn't mean those who live there sound the same. Nor does everyone have the ability to mimic an accent just because they live close to the area. I go to drama school, I've heard my fair share of bad accents.
All I'm saying is that- because I have heard Bulgarian accents before (and various spanish accents)- I personally found it funny that his accent was way closer to Spanish than Bulgarian is all. That was my own opinion. -
coolbluegreen — 16 years ago(July 24, 2009 08:52 PM)
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <
I think the poster meant that Goran Visjnic used his real, Croatian accent when he played Jimmy. Therefore, the accent is authentic it's the way GV really speaks.
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure you misunderstood what the poster was saying. S/he was just saying that the accent GV used for Jimmy was his own, real accent. That's it.
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <While all this is true, I am pretty sure it has nothing to do with what the poster said or meant.
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <Well, if you want a variety of accents, you can find them in Spain. Is that what you mean by a Spanish accent? Or are you referring to the incredible array of accents exhibited by the many, many people from many, many different countries who speak Spanish? I don't think GV sounded like any Spanish-speaking Latino I ever knew, and I've known plenty, from all over. I find it odd that you spend most of your post pointing out that accents vary within a country, and among countries that share languages, but don't seem to realize that that applies to Spanish as well.
And I am still pretty sure you misunderstood what the poster who said that GV's accent was authentic meant. S/he just meant that we were hearing GV's Croatian accent. I assume we were I don't know. -
AlekaXRequiem — 16 years ago(July 25, 2009 01:49 AM)
Ok, so with the statement "His accent couldn't be more authentic"
- Then maybe it is a Croatian accent. My original post was posing the question as to why his accent didnt sound Bulgarian but Spanish (to me). It could be an authentic Croatian accent.. but that doesn't make it an authentic Bulgarian accent as the movie states.
"I find it odd that you spend most of your post pointing out that accents vary within a country, and among countries that share languages, but don't seem to realize that that applies to Spanish as well. "
I think you're over analysing what I wrote. When I say he sounds more spanish I mean that to me his speech patterns had closer mannerisms, pronunciation and rhythm as a person who speaks spanish as a first language speaking english. God knows I've heard a wide range of Spanish accents I'm in no way saying they all sound the same. BUT there are more simularities in GVs accent to spanish than Bulgarian.
The whole point of my post is that
- I get annoyed when films claim a character is from a certain origin and yet they don't honour the reality of that characters accent.
- I was wondering if anyone else shared the view.
- Then maybe it is a Croatian accent. My original post was posing the question as to why his accent didnt sound Bulgarian but Spanish (to me). It could be an authentic Croatian accent.. but that doesn't make it an authentic Bulgarian accent as the movie states.
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coolbluegreen — 16 years ago(August 02, 2009 12:32 PM)
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <
Why do you think that? I think I am just responding to what you wrote and you may be saying things you don't know you are saying.
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <I just think it's so odd that you could write the above and then write what follows below:
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <Okay if they don't all sound the same, and they don't, than how can you say that <
?
I had a teacher once who was French who learned English in Australia. I could never understand a word she said (I am American). A person from Ecuador who learns English in New York is going to sound very different from a a person from Granada who learns English in Scotland.
GV may have sounded Spanish to you whatever your version of what you think Spanish sounds like is. But I think you are painting with too broad a brush and ignoring too many variables and the facts and the fact is that GV is Croatian and already speaks English with an accent.
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <I'll watch the movie again no pain there and looking at and listening to GV is always a most intense and enjoyable pleasure. However, I do have to say that at this point I have no idea what you are talking about. If I feel differently after watching the movie, I'll let you now. However, I am also familiar with Eastern European accents and GV's accent didn't strike me as anything other than an accent that sounded Eastern European.
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AlekaXRequiem — 16 years ago(August 02, 2009 06:23 PM)
Of course there will be differences in peoples' accents but there are usually mannerisms in an accent which give away where the person is from originally.
To me, his accent sounds spanish.
To you it may sound Croation.
But as a person who grew up with Peruvians, Agentinians, Mexican and Spanish families and now is dating a Bulgarian. I personally found GVs accents to in NO way simulate a Bulgarian. It might sound Easter European, but if its going to be put in the script "He's Bulgarian" thats a specific accent, you'd think they'd honour that.
No matter though, we seem to disagree on the matter and its really not the end of the world. I was interested to see if anyone else shared the thought.
In saying that, my favourite part of the film is when he's first introduced. He's a great character. -
coolbluegreen — 16 years ago(August 02, 2009 07:56 PM)
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <
To me, his accent sounds spanish.
To you it may sound Croation.
But as a person who grew up with Peruvians, Agentinians, Mexican and Spanish families>>
Where did you grow up? Are you Latina?
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <I didn't think it sounded Spanish. It sounded Eastern European to me and, fwiw, I am sure there are many different accents in Bulgaria just as there are many different accents in New York City.
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <Oh honour. UK? Canada? Anyway, I think that's kind of silly. It would be weird if they had someone with a Scottish accent and said he was from Bulgaria, but Eastern European is close enough for an American film.
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <I guess not.
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <I love the part where he is introduced it's so sexy it makes me melt and I love the part where Sandra Bullock's character runs down the street into the arms of her first husband. That's so romantic it makes me shiver.
This movie did not get enough credit. -
AlekaXRequiem — 16 years ago(August 04, 2009 06:11 AM)
I grew up in New Zealand. I'm not Latina. But I don't see how thats relevant.
New York is a melting pot of cultures, there are many accents and dialects there because it is filled with tourists and people of the world. There are many different accents in Bulgaria also, but there is a standard Bulgarian accent which is the capitals accent, used in the media on tv etc.
I'm presuming you're takling about the way I spelt 'honour' ?
I'm from New Zealand so I guess its the UK spelling.
"It would be weird if they had someone with a Scottish accent and said he was from Bulgaria, "
Again I dont get your point. I think that'd be stupid if they did that because Scottish is not Bulgarian.. BUT you don't have to be from that country to pull off that particular accent. For example Hugh Jackman is Australian, but pulls off a very impressive, consistant and convincing standard american accent.
"Eastern European is close enough for an American film. "
Eastern European is such a vast range of sounds. This comment doesn't make sense. And if you use a general wash of sounds and thats "good enough for an American film" -then thats sad.
It kinda belittles the quality of the film.
As an actor myself, I know that it doesn't take much to put in the work to get an accent right. It was hard for me to believe his character because I was put off by the facts that they just threw into the script to add to his allure without thinking about the consiquences or even putting the effort into this countrys dialect. -
coolbluegreen — 16 years ago(August 04, 2009 06:41 AM)
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <
Oh, a Kiwi. Lucky you and I heard your island just got bigger. It's gorgeous there, from what I have seen.
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <
New York is a melting pot of cultures, there are many accents and dialects there because it is filled with tourists and people of the world.>>
I know. I live there. And we find the term melting pot offensive now.>>
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <Why does that have to be standard? And why must Jimmy Angelov have that accent?
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <Yes. That was the clue to me.
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <That would make sense.
I wrote: <<"It would be weird if they had someone with a Scottish accent and said he was from Bulgaria, >>
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <I guess I was thinking of a movie I saw with Robert Carlyle (Scottish actor) where he played a Russian. He doesn't do accents well and the Scottish kept coming through. Very distracting. It's a totall different region!
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <Yeah, some of your Ozzies are great like Toni Colette, at whose altar we should all worship. She can do any accent. Your Lucy Lawless is very good, too. Her American standard is excellent.
I wrote: <AlekaXRequiem wrote: <
Yes, it does. Look, I can tell the difference between a Polish accent and a Ukranian one, but that is because I live in NYC. The US is a HUGE country and most people here don't get the opportunity to experience such diversity. So, GV's Croatian accent is good enough. Perhaps the Croatian accent is close to the Bulgarian. That I don't know.
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <
It kinda belittles the quality of the film. >>
It's a great film and as far as I can tell, you are THE ONLY person who had any problem with GV's accent. And why you thought it Spanish I will never, ever know.
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <Really? Been in anything? What? Ever meet Marton Csokas (now there's an Eastern European name if I ever heard one)? He's hot.
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <What, do you think everyone is just like you? Newsflash they're not! Some people can do accents, others can't. It's a gift, like any other? Could you have a career as a supermodel? It's easy for Giselle Bundchen. What about as a pro-basketball player? Piece of cake for Michael Jordan. But could you do it? Probably not. You have a gift for accents. Some do. Some don't. Don't think that because you have it everyone does.
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <He spoke English. I don't know what you mean by "putting the effort into this country's dialect." Do you mean his syntax in English did not reflect the syntax of a Bulgarian in New Zealand? I wouldn't know.
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BokoGreat — 16 years ago(August 04, 2009 06:51 AM)
Well now this is an interesting topic of conversation. Seeing as how i'm Bulgarian and have heard many other Bulgarians with a vast array of different accents it seems to me Like AlekaXRequiem hit the nail right on the head with her original post. The actor playing Jimmy Angelov (which is a strange name to begin with considering the fact that Jimmy isn't a Bulgarian name) does have a wierd and definately not Bulgarian accent and i agree that it sounds somewhat spanish. Now my accent personally isn't very close to the more widely spread Bulgrian accents either right now but when i started learning English it was and I have Family that have very heavy Bulgarian accents.
I've also heard many other accents including Croatian, Macedonian, Serbian and Russian and all of those are very different in fact if you get people from those countries to speak Bulgarian they would have very distinct accents to begin with because all those languages, even though they are quite similar as languages, are very diferent in the way they sound esepecially the vowels.
Now here is where I think his accent is off the fact that his vowels for one thing to me as a whole don't sound Eastern European at all but more latino or spanish (although he gets the ODD WORD OR TWO with an Eastern European accent and you could say they sound Bulgarian). Another thing is that his consonants are far off although his L's are ok he doesn't roll his R's which in Bulgaria if you can't do it you get taught how to do it in kindergarten, you get pulled aside for like 10 to 20 minutes till you learn how to do it, and other consonants like his T's and D's are too splashy compared to how a Bulgarian would say them which would be harder and alot less English sounding than his.
Now I suppose someone could come along and say "Hey wait a minute but maybe he spent a long time in America and has gotten used to softer T's, D's and not rolling his R's." To that I say: It still doesn't sound Bulgarian because of his intonation and many other factors including, like i said before, his vowels which sound spanish to me. To conclude I don't see a legitimate argument as to why he has that accent as he is supposed to be playing a Bulgarian Character except for: He's a Croatian guy trying to put on a Bulgarian accent and failing, making it turn out sounding Spanish. -
coolbluegreen — 16 years ago(August 04, 2009 08:48 AM)
BokoGreat wrote: <
Are you as hot as Goran Visjnic? Just askingpurely for educational purposes
BokoGreat wrote: <It's the name in the book, the first name, at least. They kept it.
BokoGreat wrote: <Good to know. However, very few people in the US will know that. She posits that it harmed the film. I am saying that, well, almost no one in America noticed. That's where the movie was made. If it made it to Bulgaria (did it?) I assume it would have been dubbed or subtitled.
BokoGreat wrote: <Why? I HAVE to see this movie again. I have lived in the Southwest and in NYC, so trust me when I say I have been surrounded by Latino accents and GV did not sound AT ALL Latino. Or do you mean Castillian Spanish? I have less familiarity with that kind of accent. Still I didn't hear it. I'll watch the film again (no hardship) and check.
BokoGreat wrote: <
I've also heard many other accents including Croatian, Macedonian, Serbian and Russian and all of those are very different in fact if you get people from those countries to speak Bulgarian they would have very distinct accents to begin with because all those languages, even though they are quite similar as languages, are very diferent in the way they sound esepecially the vowels. >>
Of course.
BokoGreat wrote: <He's Croatian. When he speaks, he speaks accented English and it's a Croatian accent. I'll have to check an ep of ER and compare it with Practical Magic to see if he uses his natural accent in Practical Magic.
BokoGreat wrote: <Well, you can find that in Spanish, god knows. Spanish is all rolled r's and I took a lot of flack from this Ecuadorian teacher for not being able to do it. I can't roll my r's. Kindergarten would have been hell for me over there. I think it's a gene. I have tried to roll my r's but have never been able to. I would have had a speech impediment in Bulgaria and many (all?) Spanish speaking countries hmmmmmm but I don't in the US. Interesting.
BokoGreat wrote: <
Now I suppose someone could come along and say "Hey wait a minute but maybe he spent a long time in America and has gotten used to softer T's, D's and not rolling his R's." To that I say: It still doesn't sound Bulgarian because of his intonation and many other factors including, like i said before, his vowels which sound spanish to me. To conclude I don't see a legitimate argument as to why he has that accent as he is supposed to be playing a Bulgarian Character except for: He's a Croatian guy trying to put on a Bulgarian accent and failing, making it turn out sounding Spanish. >>
To that I say Griffin Dunne cast the hottest guy possible and wasn't meticulous about the accents, knowing, perhaps, that almost no one in America would notice or care. As for the other stuff you said, I'll just have to see the movie again. So, you like Bulgarian folk music? Stuff like Glede Ma Glede? I do. There is an American artist, Beth Quist, who studied in Bulgaria, I believe, you sings English songs inspired by Bulgarian folk tunes. Just fyi. -
AlekaXRequiem — 16 years ago(August 05, 2009 02:31 AM)
Why is melting pot offensive?
"Why does that have to be standard? And why must Jimmy Angelov have that accent? "
Because it says in the script that he's Bulgarian. There are many Bulgarian accents but in film and television there is a 'standard' in most accents that is recognisable by the rest of the world. It would've been the base on whichever dialect GV wanted to chose. I would say starting with standard Bulgarian then adding the quirks of bulgarians who live near "Transylvania"
"Yeah, some of your Ozzies are great "
Australia and New Zealand are not the same country.
I'm from New Zealand. We're Kiwis not Ozzies. But that seems to be a common mistake. However Lucy Lawless is kiwi, she's alright.
"Perhaps the Croatian accent is close to the Bulgarian. That I don't know."
I do, it not.
"It's a great film and as far as I can tell, you are THE ONLY person who had any problem with GV's accent."
Judging from the other poster, who is infact Bulgarian themselves, I've found someone who shares the opinion.
I've also found this with a few people I've met in real life.
"What, do you think everyone is just like you? Newsflash they're not! Some people can do accents, others can't. It's a gift, like any other? "
I never said they had to be like me. If he put in the work, did some research and actually aknowledged that the accent was Bulgarian not Croatian or Spanish then his accent would've sounded a lot different. If the director had their heart set of GV knowing that he couldn't pull off the Bulgarian accent, then perhaps they should've changed the script to match the accent.
You back up my point comepletely in this one paragraph:
"I guess I was thinking of a movie I saw with Robert Carlyle (Scottish actor) where he played a Russian. He doesn't do accents well and the Scottish kept coming through. Very distracting. It's a totall different region! "
My thoughts exactly on GV.
BUT before you reply I think that no matter what I say, there is one thing holding this conversation in its tracks.
You're a fan. You are inlove with the actor (his looks have you quite taken it seems) and therefore you will not accept anything that would possibly flaw his performance. The fact remains, he's not doing a Bulgarian accent. He sounds more similare to Antonio Banderas. -
coolbluegreen — 16 years ago(August 05, 2009 04:24 AM)
AlekaKRequiem wrote: <
Well, it assumes that immigrants give up their identity to melt into American society. That is now considered offensive and we are supposed to view the experience and community like a salad all working well together but keeping their identities intact. Look soon that will be offensive and something new will be pc.
I wrote (and can you please quote me?) "Why does that have to be standard? And why must Jimmy Angelov have that accent? "
AlekaKRequiem wrote: <Eh, mayb
AlekaKRequiem wrote: <<"Yeah, some of your Ozzies are great "
Australia and New Zealand are not the same country.>>
I know that. Trust me big Xena fan here. How the hell else would I know Martin Csokas? Or Glede Ma Glede? I didn't mean "your" in that way, but it was poorly written and I can see why you took it the way you did. I know the difference between a Kiwi and an Ozzie and you will admit, if you are fair, did indicate that in my last post.
AlekaKRequiem wrote: <I know. I said that in my last post. Remember when you wrote <
and I responded with
<That should indicate that I know the difference.
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <AlekaXRequiem wrote: <
It's not one I made. The comments in my previous post, my differentiating between Kiwis and Ozzies, should have made that clear, despite my one misleading word choice. I might have said, "Some of your Italians are hot, too" without meaning that their landmass actually touches yours. That "your" thing it's New York.
AlekaXRequiem wrote: << However Lucy Lawless is kiwi, she's alright.>>
She's more than all right! Those eyes, those legs, that lovely singing voice, that everything.
I wrote (god quote me!) <<"Perhaps the Croatian accent is close to the Bulgarian. That I don't know.">>
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <I wrote: "It's a great film and as far as I can tell, you are THE ONLY person who had any problem with GV's accent.">>
AlekaXRequiem wrote:Judging from the other poster, who is infact Bulgarian themselves, I've found someone who shares the opinion.
I've also found this with a few people I've met in real life.>>
Handfuls don't matter to Hollywood.
I wrote (please quote me; this is such a drag)"What, do you think everyone is just like you? Newsflash they're not! Some people can do accents, others can't. It's a gift, like any other? "
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe he just can't do accents. Ever hear David Boreanaz try to sound Irish? It's awful. Excruciating. And not Irish not anything.
AlekaXRequiem wrote:If the director had their heart set of GV knowing that he couldn't pull off the Bulgarian accent, then perhaps they should've changed the script to match the accent.>>
Sure. Whatever.
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <
"I guess I was thinking of a movie I saw with Robert Carlyle (Scottish actor) where he played a Russian. He doesn't do accents well and the Scottish kept coming through. Very distracting. It's a totall different region! "
My thoughts exactly on GV.>>
Okay. However, the regions aren't so far apart or as utterly separated physically and culturally. Scotland and Russia very far apart.
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <
You're a fan. You are inlove with the actor (his looks have you quite taken it seems)>>
Nothing wrong with that. I am a bigger fan of other actors, but he is beautiful.
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <That is SO WEIRD. You see, I am also an Antonio Banderas fan. Huge. In fact, one my, um, best dreams ever featured Antonio Banderas. Sorry if that's TMI. However, I am perfectly willing to accept that there is a flaw in GV's performance. I have repeatedly said I will watch the film again to see if I can hear it, and I will. You COULD be right. If he does sound like AB, I might have been too awash in sensual delight to notice BUT I like accents and I like AB, so I might have. I need to watch the film again.
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coolbluegreen — 16 years ago(August 07, 2009 06:12 AM)
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <
Thanks!
AlekaXRequiem wrote: <I know. It's so wonderful. Watching Practical Magic is just a total delight. I have the soundtrack,too. Practical Magic deserves way more credit than it gets. AFAIAC, watching PM is just pure pleasure.
I'd watch it any time.