First mistake:
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InTheHub — 10 years ago(July 02, 2015 02:44 AM)
I'm amazed at how many people can't see how bad Kevin's writing was for the second film.
I'm equally amazed at how fans aren't infuriated by him, he abandoned the franchise in favor of far lesser films, had 12 years to come up with the recycled garbage that was Scream 4, then walks away from the franchise again halfway into production.
He also plays ridiculous games in his interviews like he will be shot if he actually answers a direct question.
He's lied about his original Scream 3 treatment twice, given two completely different versions of what he orignally "intended".
He didn't even take part in the documentary Still ScreamingAnd Ehren Krueger actually did!
And everthing Kevin has written has been.less than stellar.
I'm not a big fan of Scream 2, and some people aren't fond of the Scream 3, but say what you will, 2 was rushed into production and faced many rewrites and 3 had 3 different writers battling to wrap up a story that another writer started.
Scream 4 had the original writer back, and 12 years to come up with some good stuff.Yeesh!
"See it with someone you loveGo by yourself" -
Movie_Buff_Brad — 10 years ago(July 05, 2015 01:29 AM)
And Ehren's writing is actually better than Kevin's. See Arlington Road, The Skeleton Key, the Ring movies and the Transformer films he penned.
Yeah, the creator of Mudflap and Skids is a better writer than Kevin Williamson. Sure.
http://www.dorkly.com/post/73323/5-star-wars-prequel-complaints-the-internet-needs-to-retire -
CptHowdy87 — 10 years ago(August 06, 2015 11:31 PM)
Totally agree InTheHub!
Notice not one person even attempted to refute any of your points? Typical.
I like Scream 2 & 3 about equally but for very different reasons.
Scream 2 was a rush-job that would've greatly benefited from another 6-12 months of planning as far as the script goes before being released. The leaked script hurt the movie and they needed more time to re-develop the new script. Even still, I'm quite fond of Scream 2.
Like you've said before, people are willing to ignore or let slide the mistakes and inconsistencies of Scream 2 but nitpick every little thing about Scream 3. I think they're both pretty flawed but in different ways. I still love them regardless. I rate the first Scream 9/10 and both Scream 2 & 3 a 7/10.
Kevin Williamson is not the God his fans make him out to be. Even some of his initial ideas for the first Scream were really out there. But he struck gold with Scream regardless and had enough carry over ideas to make Scream 2 work for the most part. Don't forget Wes Craven's influence. Without him Scream may not have been anywhere near as good as it was with another director.
He abandoned the franchise to do his own little pet project Teaching Mrs Tingle which was really not a very good movie. Take away Helen Mirren and it's a pretty lousy movie with few if any redeeming qualities. What else has he done that's so great? Where has he earned this reputation as such a genius writer? What about Scream 4? If Kevin is so magnificent then why is Scream 4 which he had over a decade to work on such a lame and uninspired movie?
Kevin Williamson is most certainly overrated.
I think people that really dislike Scream 3 should watch it with the commentary track from Craven and Krueger. They set out to make a really fun movie and I think they absolutely succeeded. I've watched Scream 3 countless times and I never get sick of it. Sure it's not as scary or gory as the first 2 but it makes up for it in the fun department and dared to break new ground unlike Scream 2 which played it fairly safe. -
Axle_Starr — 10 years ago(August 09, 2015 03:10 AM)
Like you've said before, people are willing to ignore or let slide the mistakes and inconsistencies of Scream 2 but nitpick every little thing about Scream 3. I think they're both pretty flawed but in different ways. I still love them regardless. I rate the first Scream 9/10 and both Scream 2 & 3 a 7/10.
This is what gets me. It's as if Scream 2 gets a free pass for having more involvement from Williamson while Scream 3 gets noted for ANY sign of detriment, even those out of it's control (for instance, Columbine backlash pretty much ensured the toned-down nature of this film)
It's maddening on another level for me also because I truly feel Roman was the best Ghostface of all (even with my bias aside) and over the years of being on Scream message boards, I know I've seen him at the bottom of at least some 'Best Ghotface' lists and the like due to the reception of Scream 3 overall
I'll take a potato chipand
EAT IT!! -
swordfish_man — 10 years ago(December 30, 2015 08:17 PM)
Maybe it's because out of all the sequels, Scream 2 is actually the best of the lot? Yeah, it has flaws, but the direction was great, the acting was spot on, the dialogue (whether you like Kevin or not) was sharp, and the suspense was real.
I mean, the scenes with Dewey and Gale in the sound rooms, and Sid and Hallie trapped in the cop car are some of the most suspenseful and well directed scenes of the entire series.
It seems pretty obvious that you have a sore spot for Scream 2, but it doesn't get a pass because of Williamson's involvement, it gets its pass due to it actually being a solid sequel.
also, all this talk of '12 years and that's all he could come up with for Scream 4'. Have you heard about how the company butchered his original ideas, which ended up with them delivering the same movie we've seen 3 times already? Which also led to Kevin leaving during production?
Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy Scream 4 for what it is, but I just wish the companies would stop interfering with movies.
The movie would have been much better had they let Jill get away with the murders. But no, Hollywood had to have it their way.
So if you're gonna 'Yeesh' anyone, Yeesh the Weinstein Brothers. -
InTheHub — 10 years ago(January 04, 2016 04:57 AM)
It's funny, you just have to look at how many franchises out there aren't ridiculed for different writers coming on board.
Yet for some reason, Williamson is seen as God by every internet critic who cannot be replaced. Nor is his work at any point inferior.
Imagine if the Star Wars fanatics were bitching about that new writer from the Empire Strikes Back, only George Lucas can write star wars Dammit!!!!
Or James Cameron screwing up Aliens?
Never happen..Isn't that funny?
But NOBODY can replace Kevin Williamson.
"See it with someone you loveGo by yourself" -
Stratego — 10 years ago(January 04, 2016 06:04 AM)
No one's "bitching" about the new writers for The Empire Strikes Back, because that script was actually an improvement over the script of the first movie. People "bitch" about Scream 3, because the movie is a decline from the previous movies. Sometimes the explanation is as simple as that. You say all those other franchises don't get ridiculed, so what's the reason the Scream fanbase reacts so differently?
You're imagining things again, Guy. Who in this thread considers Kevin Wiliamson a god? They're just saying that the change in writers is evident and negatively affected the movie. -
InTheHub — 10 years ago(January 04, 2016 11:41 PM)
Sometimes the explanation is as simple as that. You say all those other franchises don't get ridiculed, so what's the reason the Scream fanbase reacts so differently?
That's my point exactlyEven though other franchises have sequels that aren't as like or successful, rarely is the new screenwriter ever bitched about.
Hannibal, Star Wars, Nightmare on Elm Street, Halloween, Friday the 13th.
All different writers for most of the sequels. Most of which is the writing not only declining, but plain abysmal.
Yet we still don't have the highlighted love for Williamson that can do no wrong, and disdain for a new writer(who I might add, is working purely off ideas from the original writer and director)
Most people wouldn't even know or care that other sequels were by different writers.
But once again, Scream 3 has Same Director,Same Actors, Same Characters, Same Producer's, Same Music Composer and more But all of it meant NOTHING just because Kevin Williamson wasn't here!!!
Scream 3 haters are VERY unconvincing.
And Might I add, Williamson screwed up his lead character far more in Scream 4 then any of the others. Yet never brought up.
"See it with someone you loveGo by yourself" -
Stratego — 10 years ago(January 05, 2016 04:23 AM)
That's my point exactly
No, Guy, the point is that you have no point. You have given no good reason for what the difference is between the Scream fanbase and the fanbases of other franchises. All you have done is suggest that Kevin Williamson holds some magical power over the fans of Scream, which is just ridiculous.
Most of those franchises you mentioned actuallly improved with a change of writers or never had great scripts to begin with. And people do complain about the difference in writing. A lot of Star Wars fans think it was not a good thing that George Lucas came back as a writer for the prequels. Horror franchises often have so many different writers, people aren't gonna focus on who they are, but you definitely see them complain about the writing itself. The thing with Scream is that Kevin Williamson is a better known name and his tone and style of writing has pretty much defined the Scream franchise. That's why people DO mention his name.
Yet we still don't have the highlighted love for Williamson that can do no wrong
Where the hell do you get this nonsense from? Nobody has said that. Some people just think the movie would've been better with him as the writer, that's all.
Most people wouldn't even know or care that other sequels were by different writers.
No, and most still think Scream 3 is an inferior movie. For years I had no idea about Sceam 3 having a different writer and I still thought it was a much lesser movie.
But once again, Scream 3 has Same Director,Same Actors, Same Characters, Same Producer's, Same Music Composer and more But all of it meant NOTHING just because Kevin Williamson wasn't here!!!
That's nonsesne. You and I have even discussed other aspects of the movie I dislike. Most people around here who criticize the movie, don't even mention Williamson or Kruger. But face it, Guy, the script is usually the whole basis of a movie, it's probably the most important aspect.
Scream 3 haters are VERY unconvincing.
You're not very convincing either accusing everybody who dislikes Scream 3 of being in love with Kevin Williamson. I understand that those who criticize the movie can't convince YOU, but that doesn't mean their criticism isn't legitimate.
And Might I add, Williamson screwed up his lead character far more in Scream 4 then any of the others. Yet never brought up.
Why would Scream 4 be brought up on a Scream 3 board? Now, I'm no fan of Scream 4 either, but I'm not sure what you're talking about. And how do you know it's not the result of the Kruger rewrites? -
InTheHub — 10 years ago(January 05, 2016 04:46 AM)
HeyAnyone can dislike Scream 3. I specifically mentioned the "Scream 3 Haters"
At worst it's inferior to the first two(and that's more than to be expected), but the collection of people out there who act like it's the worst movie they've ever seen
really
are unconvincing.
"See it with someone you loveGo by yourself" -
Stratego — 10 years ago(January 05, 2016 04:54 AM)
I specifically mentioned the "Scream 3 Haters"
You call anyone who criticizes Scream 3 a hater
but the collection of people out there who act like it's the worst movie they've ever seen really are unconvincing.
I hardly see people do that, most are just extremely disappointed. And it's IMDb, on every board you'll find a post saying "Worst movie ever!!!" -
InTheHub — 10 years ago(January 06, 2016 04:39 AM)
most are just extremely disappointed
It's the extremely part that I find that hard to believe.
As far as third sequels go, horror or otherwise, Scream 3 would pretty much favor comparably.
"See it with someone you loveGo by yourself" -
Stratego — 10 years ago(January 06, 2016 06:04 AM)
It's the extremely part that I find that hard to believe.
Yeah, because YOU like the movie. But if you're a big fan of the first two movies and don't like Scream 3 at all, it IS extremely disappointing.
If you feel that the Scream movies are judged less honestly by the fanbase than other movies are judged by THEIR fanbase, then you should provide a more convincing reason than your suggestion that all those fans are magically in love with Kevin Williamson. It doesn't make YOU very believable.
As far as third sequels go, horror or otherwise, Scream 3 would pretty much favor comparably.
Yeah, maybe compared to The Godfather 3. The Ewoks may blow, but TROTJ is hardly disappointing even if it's a lesser movie than its predeccessors. I only like the first movie in the Back to the Future trilogy, but the two sequels are pretty much at the same level. Most third sequels are to be found in the horror genre, where franchises pretty much start to suck already with the second movie. So there's much less disappointment when the third movie comes out. -
InTheHub — 10 years ago(January 09, 2016 11:37 PM)
Yeah, because YOU like the movie.
That's not true at all, there are tons of sequels I love but still can admit they're not technically the best of the franchise.
I can't believe how many people can't see that Scream 2 did start to suck by the second movie, even if it's still brilliant by standards.
Especially where the writings concerned, which is the biggest reason they claim the third sucks, there is a decline between Scream and Scream 2.
"It sucks because Kevin Williamson didn't write it" This is the sheep response by most fans. Kevin's writing is the weakest part of Scream 2. And don't even get me started on Scream 4.
It's hypocritical to say the least.
Scream 3 is just not that different or bad enough to be constantly called out the way it is on these boards.
It's also rarely championed for the troubles it had during production or the fact that it's the third sequel, it's bound to feel a little stale by this point.
"See it with someone you loveGo by yourself" -
Stratego — 10 years ago(January 10, 2016 07:42 AM)
That's not true at all, there are tons of sequels I love but still can admit they're not technically the best of the franchise.
I'm talking about the fact that you're incapable of believing that people could be extremely disappointed with Scream 3. The only reason for that is that you love the movie.
I can't believe how many people can't see that Scream 2 did start to suck by the second movie, even if it's still brilliant by standards.
It didn't start to "suck", it was simply a step down, which the majority of people agree on.
there is a decline between Scream and Scream 2.
Most people agree with that.
"It sucks because Kevin Williamson didn't write it" This is the sheep response by most fans.
It's impossible to say if the movie wouldn't have sucked, but it's an understandable response as there's a clear difference in writing.
Scream 3 is just not that different or bad enough to be constantly called out the way it is on these boards.
You complain about any kind of criticism of Scream 3, you also agree with any kind of criticism of Scream 2. Don't call other people hypocritical.
It's also rarely championed for the troubles it had during production or the fact that it's the third sequel, it's bound to feel a little stale by this point.
Yeah, you don't champion Scream 2 either for the troubles it had during production. The script leaking and having to do rewrites while filming is bigger than any of the troubles Scream 3 ever faced. Scream 3 has more issues than just "feeling stale", but being a third sequel should not be an excuse for that. -
swordfish_man — 10 years ago(December 30, 2015 08:18 PM)
'Yeesh' the Weinstein Brothers. they're the reason we got what we got, not Kevin.
I really enjoy Scream 4 for what it is, but it would have been better had they just stuck with Kevin's original ideas.