Can't be serious!
-
ronnivic — 16 years ago(August 10, 2009 06:26 PM)
Well, aquaman, I'll defer to you on a lot of subjects but not on cinema.
This movie is in my top 50.
No one has mentioned the score which was almost a character. Think Hans Zimmer was the composer/arranger and did some really interesting things with old blues he must have found in the Library of Congress. One of the best scores I've heard. Equal or exceeding Black Hawk Down's which was marvelous.
Saw this movie years ago and have never forgotten it. Think some men might dislike it for obvious reasons. Betrayal happens with military people just like it happens constantly between all types. But this betrayal was of a daughter by her father. Horrible.
The whole cast was terrific. The story was haunting.
Hollyweirdos? -
theunholy-1 — 17 years ago(December 30, 2008 03:28 AM)
Well
If your so precious American army was AGAIN saving a world that never asked for anything, or saving the world from a danger that wasn't one or just for some financial interests (let's say oil in Iraq for example), I doubt you would have something against it. -
aquaman2964 — 17 years ago(December 31, 2008 01:34 AM)
Did six million Jews ASK to be slaughtered during the holocaust? No. Did the survivors ASK to be liberated? No, but we did it anyway. Did those who suffered under communism-a form of government which killed thirty million of its own people for disagreeing with the government- ASK us to help us to help stop their oppressors? No, but we did it anyway. Did the Afghani and Iraqi people suffering under terrorist regimes ASK for help? No, but we did it anyway. Hmmmyes, it seems like we suffer from a bad case of initiative. SHAME on us for helping the oppressed!
Oh, and about all of that Iraqi oil: WHERE IS IT?!
If left out, does sour cream go bad or go good? -
FairestMaiden — 17 years ago(January 08, 2009 10:40 PM)
I find it revealing that your problem with the movie is that it portrays, in your mind, a negative reflection on the Military.
I find this revealing because this movie had nothing to do with the Military. It had to do with a crime. The crime of RAPE; and the subsequent crime of obstruction of justice. You seem to have no sense of horror at what this woman went through, only the sense of your bruised ego regarding what people will think about the Military. Indeed, the Military figures the least in the entire film. It only provides the arena where the crime took place, and the fact that, even in the Military, with its Code of Honour et al, there are people among you who are not so noble, not so bright and shining, not so righteous.
What it proves is that people are human. That they are frail, frightened, and vulnerable strong, courageous, and decent twisted, tempted, and perverse no matter the arena, no matter what walk of life, no matter how much or how little money, no matter religious affiliation, no matter how high-up or how down-low on the scale of human existence one has attained to.
Quite frankly, I didn't believe all that baloney with the roughing-up of the soldiers, the artillery stuff etc etc as to the way the Military works at all. To me, that was just typical Hollywood creative license.
For me, the movie was about the rape of a woman, and the utter betrayal she felt when her own powerful father refused to seek justice for her. What irritated me was that she was a soldier; and soldier's fall on their swords for the good of the many. Surely, given the parameters of the story, she had to understand that her ordeal, if made public, would cast a very disparaging light on the Military. So, fall on her sword she must. But she couldn't accept it; and, in my mind, that makes her not a very good soldier.
On the other hand, the Military (a metaphor, in this case, for the General's/Father's masculine, paternal force whose honour and duty it is to protect the feminine essence) is there to serve and protect; yet it failed to protect her, and then failed to serve her in her rightful need for justice. Which, of course, takes us back to the ever-charged dilemma: if the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one, of what is liberty and justice for all made? -
aquaman2964 — 17 years ago(January 10, 2009 07:55 AM)
Maiden, most of your post is well thought-out and very articulate. You didn't, however, get around to stating what my opinion 'reveals' about me. If you're implying that I'm some sort of moral degenerate because I didn't like this movie, you're dead wrong. Rape and murder are Hollywood staples and that wasn't my idea. I'm guessing that nobody was actually harmed in the making of this film but some bad information WAS offered. If the plot of this movie revolved around the sale of a kitten, I still wouldn't care for the misinformation.
Seriously, folks, don't rape people. It isn't nice.
Rape bad.
Kittens good.
All better?
If left out, does sour cream go bad or go good? -
FairestMaiden — 17 years ago(January 10, 2009 06:52 PM)
Maiden, most of your post is well thought-out and very articulate.
Thank you.
You didn't, however, get around to stating what my opinion 'reveals' about me.
It reveals that 1. You're having great difficulty accepting that this movie is fiction, and 2. Because of that, you feel 'other people' will not be able to make the distinction either, hence, regard the Military the way it was portrayed in the movie.
If you're implying that I'm some sort of moral degenerate because I didn't like this movie, you're dead wrong.
I implied nothing of the sort. I don't know how you could have come to that conclusion at all. The Military is, quite obviously, very close to your heart. I would imagine rape is something that is much farther out of your realm of experience, hence, your comments are about the Military aspect of this movie, not the what movie was actually about.
Rape and murder are Hollywood staples and that wasn't my idea.
And so is portraying every status-quo institution the world-over as the epitome of evil, lol Wouldn't you agree?
I'm guessing that nobody was actually harmed in the making of this film but some bad information WAS offered. If the plot of this movie revolved around the sale of a kitten, I still wouldn't care for the misinformation.
I agree bad information, bad portrayal. Alas, the way Hollywood gets around this is with two words 'fiction' and 'documentary'. With these two words, everything under the sun is either made fodder on the one hand, or (usually) boring on the other, lol
I hope you won't judge me harshly for saying what I'm about to say. For lack of a better word, I am a pagan, whose religious practices take on a more shamanic feel, (think Dances with Wolves, Kevin Costner daning around the fire). This is common practice for me every month. As well, I have an altar in my home, light candles, burn incense, and pray intensely for myself and for the world. I tell you this because there are so many movies and books that do not properly portray that which is dear to my heart, just as the Military is to yours. We are portaryed, instead, as witches, as evil-doers that conduct infant sacrifices and all manner of horrendous doings. Or, we are portrayed in the silliest of terms (think Buffy the Vampire Slayer or Charmed), sigh
What I'm trying to say is this: We live in a free country. Being in the Military, you would give your life to defend that freedom (and, indeed, I think you have if I'm not mistaken in this), even tho there are those that would exploit such freedoms to make a buck in denigrating the very institution that provides that continued freedom.
What can one do but have faith that such portrayls are taken with the grain of sand that commen sense demands? The alternative, censureship, is too ghastly to contemplate.
Seriously, folks, don't rape people. It isn't nice.
Rape bad.
Kittens good.
All better?
This was condescending and unkind of you towards me. I don't deserve that aquaman. I tried really hard to be articulate, as you said, and unoffending towards you. -
aquaman2964 — 17 years ago(January 11, 2009 03:22 PM)
Again, a great post! I smiled a lot.
It looks as though our world views aren't really so divergent. I don't share your religious practices, but they work for me if they work for you. I'm not religious at all. Spare a prayer for me, maybe?
That last bit was just a joke. Kittens ARE good, though, right? Housebreaking my dog was a much more disagreeable business. That little s%$*t wouldn't use that litter box no matter what!
If left out, does sour cream go bad or go good? -
libertarian45 — 17 years ago(February 11, 2009 03:13 PM)
I'll wade in here both as a fan of Nelson DeMille's books and as a soldier with 25 years of service. I agree with both sides. We soldiers are hyper-sensitive to inaccurate portrayels of the military in pop culture. Not, as Maiden says, in defence of the institution, but, more so because we know better. This is true for any profession that is a popular subject for a setting of a story. Ask cops what hey think about cop shows, doctors about doctor shows and crime scene investigators about CSI (particularly MiamiWTF?).
I love DeMille's books, but, I made the mistake of seeing this film BEFORE reading the book. I was so put off by aspects of the film that I delayed reading the novel for years. I just read the book and it is much more plausible than the film. DeMille is a stickler for details and has several friends in police, aviation etc who assit him with research. DeMille was an Lt in the Air Cav and a platoon leader in Vietnam. That said, there is a lot of license taken. The problems with the film appear to be related to Hollywood's need to "sexy" everything uplocation of the murder shifts from a conventional rifle range to some bizarro worl urban assault range with hanging dummies, mood lighting, sound effects and apparently live bouncing betty anti personnel mines. It's not good enough that Col Moore is humiliated for his participation - he has to commit suicide. It's not good enough for Kent to merely shoot himslf (after Moore, they had to "take it up a notch)- he has to step on a mine. The General isn't allowed to fade away in early retirement - he has to be charged. It's not good enough that she is raped by 4 jerks in cam paint and mosquito nets (believeable on an exercise) - they have to be done up in full sniper Ghillie suits (highly unlikely) and filmed so as to appear like sasquatches or something!
The film would have been so much better if Hollywood had just been more faithful to the book. Here's the weird part, DeMille was on set and involved in the production! I can't believe he allowed the film makers to trash his story so badly.
All that said, Maiden has a point. The military setting allows a new twist and a fresh look for a crime story (like The Presidio, NCIS). It could have happened in another setting. The Firm (lawyers) and other films are truly far-fetched but they are still entertaining. I still watch CSIfor some reason. Apparently, I'm not alone. I think movies like Die Hard 2 make the army look even worse and do a much worse job getting the details right. How about "Broken Arrow"? After seeing the trailers for "Basic" I couldn't bring mysrlf to watch it. Memo to Hollywood: soldiers don't run around in the woods wearing berets! -
joshmarshall18 — 14 years ago(December 16, 2011 07:05 PM)
Look I watched this movie - you do know that's what it is? Right? Of course the movie's fictional, the plots not the best I will admit that but its not based on a true story or is a documentary. Sometimes you need just let reality go and you might find out you enjoy a movie or two!! 7/10