Holy Crap
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redcar45 — 19 years ago(June 28, 2006 04:46 AM)
isnt there also a quote "u make plans ans god laughs"
this means god knows how ur life will pan out before u make a choice.so wouldnt that also mean that god knows that u will commit suicide? and if this is true how can u go to hell and it being a sin if god knew u were going to do this all along? -
elidnelson — 19 years ago(June 28, 2006 10:31 AM)
No offense but that didn't make a whole lot of sense. Just because God knows you're going to do something doesn't change whether it is a sin or not. If God knows I'm going to murder someone, because He is omnipotent and outside of time, it is still a sin. I still had the choice to murder or not murder. To kill myself or not to kill myself.
However, I've never heard the quote "you make plans and God laughs" and I'm not exactly sure where or if the Bible says that taking your own life is an unforgivable sin. -
SHaGGGz — 19 years ago(June 28, 2006 01:14 PM)
look guys the universe is just like an unfathomably complex computer program, with fixed variables and fixed rules by which those variables function. every single atom in this universe abides by fundamental rules. so this leaves no room for free will, we are merely minds that react to the sum total of what we have become and what the world around us has become (nature + nurture). of course we have the illusion of free will and choice, because we "decide" to do things, but which decision we arrive to invariably relies on and is the result of the aforementioned things. i guess this view can be described as stoic, but relies on logic and reality instead of theological nonsense (but you can call all of these variables "god" if it makes you more comfortable with confronting reality, it doesnt change a thing).
for this outlook to work i guess one would have to reject chaos theory and the randomness of the universe it believes in. but even if you do subscribe to chaos theory it doesnt change much instead of being the outcome of the sum total of things before and around us which has only one possible outcome, we are the result of random molecule collisions, neither of which are in our control.
so of course, this whole outlook implies that none of us can be blamed for anything we do, but so what? does that mean that we should do whatever we want? no, because this reality still exists, and so do the consequences of our actions.
AIM: SHaGGGz
MSN: shagggz@hotmail.com -
jbaker1-2 — 19 years ago(July 04, 2006 10:08 AM)
"No offense but that didn't make a whole lot of sense. Just because God knows you're going to do something doesn't change whether it is a sin or not. If God knows I'm going to murder someone, because He is omnipotent and outside of time, it is still a sin. I still had the choice to murder or not murder. To kill myself or not to kill myself."
Did you really?
If God is truly omniscient, then you cannot choose to do anything other than what God already knows you're going to do. If, for example, God knows you're going to murder your wife at ten minutes past four next Friday afternoon, then you cannot choose to not murder your wife, nor, for that matter, can you choose to murder her at any time other than ten past four next Friday. If you can make another choice, then God didn't really know what you were going to do, and is therefore not all-knowing.
Omniscience and free will cannot coexist. If God is omniscient, then free will does not exist. If free will exists, then God is not omniscient. You can't have it both ways.
And yes, it really is that simple. -
SHaGGGz — 19 years ago(March 17, 2007 05:02 AM)
unless one subscribes to weak determinism, jbaker. either way, its useless arguing with religious simpletons. relying on an undisprovable principle does have its benefits. but just because you cant disprove the existence of batman doesnt mean he exists.
AIM/MSN: SHaGGGz -
Tracey73 — 11 years ago(March 14, 2015 09:46 AM)
. If God knows I'm going to murder someone, because He is omnipotent and outside of time, it is still a sin. I still had the choice to murder or not murder. To kill myself or not to kill myself.
I am a Christian who believes that God gave us all free will but also knows everything. That being said, I do not believe that God condemns those who are suffering (mentally) and takes their own life. Suicide and mental illness are such complex subjects. Being in a suicidal state of mind is not a "choice." Being severely mentally ill is not a choice.
The beauty is I'm learning how to face my beast ~ Blue October -
goldpink23 — 10 years ago(October 19, 2015 09:23 PM)
@elidnelson.
and I'm not exactly sure where or if the Bible says that taking your own life is an unforgivable sin.
One of the Ten commandments is
"Tho shall not kill"
.Therefore killing yourself is a
SIN
. -
Wuchakk — 10 years ago(October 19, 2015 10:57 PM)
One of the Ten Commandments is "Thou shall not kill". Therefore killing yourself is a SIN.
It's more specifically "You shall not murder."
As far as killing yourself being a sin, it depends on the individual and the situation, including the light they have (see John 15:22,24). Remember, Samson
intentionally
killed himself when he toppled the support pillars of the Philistine temple to destroy his enemies and thus fulfill his commission from the LORD (Judges 16:25-30). Also, Romans 8:37-39 says: "in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that
neither death nor life
, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth,
nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord
."
My 150 (or so) favorite movies:
http://www.imdb.com/list/ls070122364/ -
leedygray — 18 years ago(July 23, 2007 04:23 AM)
I read somewhere that religion was created so the poor wouldnt rebel and kill the rich.. meaning enduring a life of struggle sacrifice and pain gets u to heaven where all the good things are.
All I know is religion is like communism.. great in theory but when people and their ego's become involved it all goes down the gurgler.
I laughed when I read your post, redcar, because the idea you've regurgitated, that religion was created to keep the poor down, was spoken by none other than Karl Marx, founder of Communism ('religion is the opiate of the masses').
And in your next sentence you compared Communism to religion.
Yes, yes, I know what you're trying to say, but just wanted to point out the irony. -
notpuritan — 16 years ago(September 26, 2009 09:39 PM)
These atheists-fundamentalists are even worse then any Christian Orthodox beliver of middle ages.
You may hate religion it is your business but you can not deny other people right to be religious.
As much you hate religion such an idiotic way, others have full right to hate you as an usurpator of their rights.
Do not like the move because of religious material - go away and let others enjoy.