The Ending *SPOILERS*
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three-oranges — 20 years ago(November 19, 2005 09:03 PM)
He didn't lie to protect her. He thought that she had gone to great lengths to set him up.
He lied because he had given up. It was as if he were committing suicide.
He didn't need to protect her, because she hadn't done anything. -
wolfepyt — 20 years ago(November 29, 2005 11:01 AM)
this thread is completely OFF
Thomas never said anything that resembles "the wife told us where to find these." or whatevers
Henry confessed because he broke down through the interrogation and lack of belief from everyone around him.
and Henry lied at the beginning because he knew he had photos and some relations with the victims. and it will just complicate the matter. so a lie would make things a shorter process. well atleast he thought. -
TMag45 — 20 years ago(December 08, 2005 04:24 PM)
Absolutely not. In fact,we don't know who is the killer and it's not important. It's not really a movie about murder or something like that,it's a movie based on suspicion Everybody things that Gene Hackman's character is the killer. Except me. Seriously.
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sharkybc-1 — 18 years ago(July 28, 2007 03:03 AM)
To the few people who thought Hackman or his wife was the killer even after the final scene:
I mean, how can you possibly think Hackman or his wife was the killer after you have seen the movie. Did you just not watch it? The girl detective brings in pics of the dead girls in another guy's cd case, says they caught him in the act, and that he is downstairs. Did you guys just choose to ignore that part? just really grinds my gears how inattentive some viewers can be. -
CmdrCody — 18 years ago(July 28, 2007 04:59 AM)
sharkybe: Take it easy, my friend. The movie is so finely crafted by Freeman and Hackman that the big moment, where the actual situation is revealed, comes and goes by very quickly. It was frustrating to read elaborate scenarios here about how the wife did it, or Hearst did it, or Lt. "Opie" was in on it or even the "dog" did it.
But if you think about the moviewho did "it" is almost secondary. A backdrop, if you will. The real drama is Hearst's (Hackman) descent into personal hell, knowing all the time he's right but having to fight to protect his most valuable secrets from being revealed. By the end of the picture, all is peeled away from Hearst.
You enjoyed the movie and appreciated its subtleties. So did we. But isn't better here to discuss the cool parts of the picture, rather than use "idiot" or "stupid" with fellow posters? Those terms are not a convincing argument, right?
CmdrCody -
alicecbr — 18 years ago(August 13, 2007 12:56 PM)
I also agree. The guy who really LOVED is wife, as we're told repeatedly, is deliberately set up by his former 'buddy', the police captain. They had obviously had history together earlier in their careers, and the lawyer had become wealthy as the first few scenes show.contrasted with the police captain.
the movie producers also were depending on our thinking of both Freeman playing 'the good guy', so we would be slow to think of him as a conniving bad cop.as Freeman was, tricking Chantal into thinking that her husband had told him he had had relations with the niece, etc, etc.
There is also the implication that the bad, stupid young cop had had relations with the young wife: "Ive been in your house" and would love to railroad this guy, marrying the young wife and getting the money, as well (if she became the wealthy widow).
Good call, on a really twisty turny movie.
"He who swaps his liberty for the promise of 'security' deserves neither." Ben Franklin -
CmdrCody — 18 years ago(August 14, 2007 06:52 PM)
The movie producers are the stars of the picture: Gene Hackman and Morgan Freeman !
The movie was a "labor of love" for the two excellent actors and you can depend on their making of a psychological, complex tale. The murder mystery is almost secondary. The movie is really about the systematic "peeling away" of a rich, powerful man's secrets and his descent into a personal hell at the hands of three people: his old friend (Morgan Freeman), a brash image of his younger self (Lt. "Opie") and his sexy, unattainable, jealous child-wife.
His "confession" is Hearst's way at getting back at all three of themin a convoluted, twisted way, I'll admit.
CmdrCody -
Tabac1975 — 20 years ago(December 10, 2005 03:45 PM)
I agree with you. This seems to be the ending I thought it was.
Morgan Freeman looks at Hackman and listens to the lies he says and reallises they are just putting words in his mouth. Hackman just gives up and will admit to whatever they say he did. -
stefex — 20 years ago(December 10, 2005 04:07 PM)
But was it suicide or an attempt to protect his wife, that's the question
He did say something along the lines of "I can't believe she would go to such lengths" when they brought the photographies in, and I'm pretty sure they mentioned something about his wife having shown at least the room, where the photographies were, was.
So from that, I gather that he thought Chantal - sorry, I'm horrible at the actors' real names - was trying to, uh, well sell him out, whatever, and that he took a dive, suicided, because of- He was just tired at the damn thing.
- He wanted to protect Chantal.
Depending on 1) or 2), the ending has quite a different, um, meaning. Thingie.
At least, so I thought.
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karlhoh — 20 years ago(December 11, 2005 01:56 PM)
Just saw the movie yesterday. Have had a hard time not to think about it since then. What did Henry signal to Chantal during his speech? Why did she leave? What did she do when she left? Why did the real murderer choose the victims he chose (if the real murderer wasn't Henry or Chantal)? To set Henry up? Why did he have the photos with him in the car? (I'm not a pedophiliac serial killer, maybe that's why I wouldn't bring photos of previous crimes with me when committing new ones?) And yet - it's obvious that Henry during the end of the video session only repeats the accusations his interrogator makes. What does he think? What does Chantal think? And then the question you've all been discussing: if he wasn't guilty, why did he confess? This was one confusing ending.
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cassandra47 — 20 years ago(December 14, 2005 05:55 PM)
Read the thread What the Heck was that all about. There are one or two good posts there, especially the one from sidnee. But Ill have a go at answering your questions anyway..
May contain SPOILERS (for those who haven't seen this film).
When Henry says in his speech There is no greater gift than a childs smile hes addressing Chantal with a not so subtle reference to their not having any children themselves. He also makes a remark about catastrophe being the natural human environment, but that it is human nature to overcome, if we work together. All these are mainly addressed to his audience, concerning the hurricane and its effects, but the subtext is aimed at Chantal.
I think this provokes Chantal to leave and go to the police station to find out whats going on, and she asks to speak to Henry, who wont see her. The Camille episode is in her mind, and once this comes out, the suspicions grow even greater in both Victors and Chantals minds. Victor gets Chantal to say too much, and Victors increasing suspicion feeds back to Chantal.
Its coincidence that Henry has taken photographs of the 2 murdered children, he doubtless has photographs of other children, and maybe adults too, as he photographs the island and its people as a hobby, but Detective Mr. Congeniality (as Henry calls Owens) only takes out photos of the 2 significant ones from Henrys darkroom to give to Victor. As far as Owens is concerned, Henrys guilt is proved by these.
The real murderer is anonymous, he has nothing to do with anyone in this story. Victor, Owens and Chantal have been barking up the wrong tree, based purely on a set of coincidences, incorrectly interpreted circumstantial evidence, and Chantals thing about the episode with Camille. Henry is forced into confessing aspects of his life hed rather keep to himself, which add to their suspicion. When his photographs of the 2 girls are produced he can barely look at them, and knows Chantal has been instrumental in his fate, saying She thinks I did this. Chantal however is not 100% certain watch her when shes waiting for the answer to Victors final questions to Henry as to whether he murdered the girls, shes on tenterhooks, still not quite sure.
But its too late for Henry. What he sees as a total collapse of trust from Chantal, causes him to be unable to fight anymore in spite of his being innocent of the crimes. Hes surrounded by people who dont believe him, hes revealed the seedy side of his life, and the woman he loved has effectively betrayed him. So he gives up and makes a false confession. How could he go back to a woman who has been complicit in producing evidence, even though it isnt evidence. The marriage is ended, and at that point he feels his life is finished.
In the French film that this was based on, Garde a Vue , and in the original novel Brainwash, the wife kills herself at the end, but I found it quite effective that Chantal tries to go up to Henry, who then turns away from her. What could she possibly say to him ?
The ending is certainly sudden and rather brief, but everyones in a state of shock, Victor and Chantal chewing over their destruction of one man, and Henry.well, who knows what Henrys thinking. Were not supposed to contemplate the future for these three.
As to why the real killer had photographs in his car, I cant answer that, not being able to get into the mind of a pedophile..but it usefully solved the case.
Remember this isnt a detective story, its a psychological drama. Worth watching more than once.
Just a few thoughts but hope this helps a bit.
"Nothing is certain till it's certain". -
lucas_bgn — 20 years ago(December 18, 2005 05:52 PM)
spoiler warning
I agree with that the murders wasn't the real focus.
Everything was a coincidences and circumstantial evidence.
It was all about the bad relationship henry and chantel has had
since Chantel misundertood and got jealousy of Camille.
which led to that they slept in seperate bedrooms and
Henry went to hookers.
The photos of kids was because henry loved kids,
he wanted to be father himself, but because of his
bad relationship with Chantel, he never got any.
he was lying in the begging because he new he had the photos of the dead girls.
And the thing with Camille, same thing here he loves children,
by being with Camille, giving her the christmas gifts and see her laugh,
he experienced a bit about being a father. Chantel walks in and
with her tanking everything out of context and twisted it,
she got jealous and disgusted.
Why Henry confessed to the murders, is becaused he loved his wife
very much, but since the incident with Camille,
Chantel has totally shut him out, the woman he loved did want him.
So after all the interigations, everyone thought he was guilty and
the final straw that his wife had purposely made so that the police
found the photos, he confessed. Why not, the woman he loves hates him,
he thinks what can he has done to earn this punishment. So by taking
confessing and getting convicted for the murders, Chantel can
legally divorce him, which mean she would get half his money,
the house and find a husband in her own age that she wanted.
He decideds that its all his fault and decides to take the blame,
take the punishment and confess to the murders,
he thinks he obviously deserves it.
Then Chantel, didn't exactly count on that he would do this,
that henry truly does loves her, thats why she tried to commit suicide,
because she didn't deserve his love. But she changes her mind,
decides to give their marrige a second chance.
She walks to him, he brushes her of because of her betrayal.
Who knows what happends next, we can only guess
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albi_gjino — 20 years ago(January 15, 2006 03:12 AM)
Many of you people are sure he lied because he was so desperate about not having Chantal's trust anymore.
-This ending seems totally unpleasant to me. Chantal never trusted him him on anything, so he's probably used to that. Also, how can a big man like Henry throw away his life because of a woman. He can have any woman he wants. And he has no strong relationship with Chantal. She is only disgusted from him.
Henry is a successful, rich, famous, old and experienced man. Remember that! I think he would give his life for his beliefs, but not for nothing. Even worse, to let loose a real child killer (other than Chantal, someone who's going to kill again).
And the detective did say "the wife helped us find these".
Anyway, I really like this ending
even if this isn't the right one.