The Ending *SPOILERS*
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stefex — 20 years ago(December 10, 2005 04:07 PM)
But was it suicide or an attempt to protect his wife, that's the question
He did say something along the lines of "I can't believe she would go to such lengths" when they brought the photographies in, and I'm pretty sure they mentioned something about his wife having shown at least the room, where the photographies were, was.
So from that, I gather that he thought Chantal - sorry, I'm horrible at the actors' real names - was trying to, uh, well sell him out, whatever, and that he took a dive, suicided, because of- He was just tired at the damn thing.
- He wanted to protect Chantal.
Depending on 1) or 2), the ending has quite a different, um, meaning. Thingie.
At least, so I thought.
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karlhoh — 20 years ago(December 11, 2005 01:56 PM)
Just saw the movie yesterday. Have had a hard time not to think about it since then. What did Henry signal to Chantal during his speech? Why did she leave? What did she do when she left? Why did the real murderer choose the victims he chose (if the real murderer wasn't Henry or Chantal)? To set Henry up? Why did he have the photos with him in the car? (I'm not a pedophiliac serial killer, maybe that's why I wouldn't bring photos of previous crimes with me when committing new ones?) And yet - it's obvious that Henry during the end of the video session only repeats the accusations his interrogator makes. What does he think? What does Chantal think? And then the question you've all been discussing: if he wasn't guilty, why did he confess? This was one confusing ending.
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cassandra47 — 20 years ago(December 14, 2005 05:55 PM)
Read the thread What the Heck was that all about. There are one or two good posts there, especially the one from sidnee. But Ill have a go at answering your questions anyway..
May contain SPOILERS (for those who haven't seen this film).
When Henry says in his speech There is no greater gift than a childs smile hes addressing Chantal with a not so subtle reference to their not having any children themselves. He also makes a remark about catastrophe being the natural human environment, but that it is human nature to overcome, if we work together. All these are mainly addressed to his audience, concerning the hurricane and its effects, but the subtext is aimed at Chantal.
I think this provokes Chantal to leave and go to the police station to find out whats going on, and she asks to speak to Henry, who wont see her. The Camille episode is in her mind, and once this comes out, the suspicions grow even greater in both Victors and Chantals minds. Victor gets Chantal to say too much, and Victors increasing suspicion feeds back to Chantal.
Its coincidence that Henry has taken photographs of the 2 murdered children, he doubtless has photographs of other children, and maybe adults too, as he photographs the island and its people as a hobby, but Detective Mr. Congeniality (as Henry calls Owens) only takes out photos of the 2 significant ones from Henrys darkroom to give to Victor. As far as Owens is concerned, Henrys guilt is proved by these.
The real murderer is anonymous, he has nothing to do with anyone in this story. Victor, Owens and Chantal have been barking up the wrong tree, based purely on a set of coincidences, incorrectly interpreted circumstantial evidence, and Chantals thing about the episode with Camille. Henry is forced into confessing aspects of his life hed rather keep to himself, which add to their suspicion. When his photographs of the 2 girls are produced he can barely look at them, and knows Chantal has been instrumental in his fate, saying She thinks I did this. Chantal however is not 100% certain watch her when shes waiting for the answer to Victors final questions to Henry as to whether he murdered the girls, shes on tenterhooks, still not quite sure.
But its too late for Henry. What he sees as a total collapse of trust from Chantal, causes him to be unable to fight anymore in spite of his being innocent of the crimes. Hes surrounded by people who dont believe him, hes revealed the seedy side of his life, and the woman he loved has effectively betrayed him. So he gives up and makes a false confession. How could he go back to a woman who has been complicit in producing evidence, even though it isnt evidence. The marriage is ended, and at that point he feels his life is finished.
In the French film that this was based on, Garde a Vue , and in the original novel Brainwash, the wife kills herself at the end, but I found it quite effective that Chantal tries to go up to Henry, who then turns away from her. What could she possibly say to him ?
The ending is certainly sudden and rather brief, but everyones in a state of shock, Victor and Chantal chewing over their destruction of one man, and Henry.well, who knows what Henrys thinking. Were not supposed to contemplate the future for these three.
As to why the real killer had photographs in his car, I cant answer that, not being able to get into the mind of a pedophile..but it usefully solved the case.
Remember this isnt a detective story, its a psychological drama. Worth watching more than once.
Just a few thoughts but hope this helps a bit.
"Nothing is certain till it's certain". -
lucas_bgn — 20 years ago(December 18, 2005 05:52 PM)
spoiler warning
I agree with that the murders wasn't the real focus.
Everything was a coincidences and circumstantial evidence.
It was all about the bad relationship henry and chantel has had
since Chantel misundertood and got jealousy of Camille.
which led to that they slept in seperate bedrooms and
Henry went to hookers.
The photos of kids was because henry loved kids,
he wanted to be father himself, but because of his
bad relationship with Chantel, he never got any.
he was lying in the begging because he new he had the photos of the dead girls.
And the thing with Camille, same thing here he loves children,
by being with Camille, giving her the christmas gifts and see her laugh,
he experienced a bit about being a father. Chantel walks in and
with her tanking everything out of context and twisted it,
she got jealous and disgusted.
Why Henry confessed to the murders, is becaused he loved his wife
very much, but since the incident with Camille,
Chantel has totally shut him out, the woman he loved did want him.
So after all the interigations, everyone thought he was guilty and
the final straw that his wife had purposely made so that the police
found the photos, he confessed. Why not, the woman he loves hates him,
he thinks what can he has done to earn this punishment. So by taking
confessing and getting convicted for the murders, Chantel can
legally divorce him, which mean she would get half his money,
the house and find a husband in her own age that she wanted.
He decideds that its all his fault and decides to take the blame,
take the punishment and confess to the murders,
he thinks he obviously deserves it.
Then Chantel, didn't exactly count on that he would do this,
that henry truly does loves her, thats why she tried to commit suicide,
because she didn't deserve his love. But she changes her mind,
decides to give their marrige a second chance.
She walks to him, he brushes her of because of her betrayal.
Who knows what happends next, we can only guess
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albi_gjino — 20 years ago(January 15, 2006 03:12 AM)
Many of you people are sure he lied because he was so desperate about not having Chantal's trust anymore.
-This ending seems totally unpleasant to me. Chantal never trusted him him on anything, so he's probably used to that. Also, how can a big man like Henry throw away his life because of a woman. He can have any woman he wants. And he has no strong relationship with Chantal. She is only disgusted from him.
Henry is a successful, rich, famous, old and experienced man. Remember that! I think he would give his life for his beliefs, but not for nothing. Even worse, to let loose a real child killer (other than Chantal, someone who's going to kill again).
And the detective did say "the wife helped us find these".
Anyway, I really like this ending
even if this isn't the right one. -
dzman49 — 20 years ago(March 07, 2006 07:05 AM)
"Chantal never trusted him him on anything, so he's probably used to that."
True. Recall that:- The incident with Camille (that precipitated the sexless stage of their marriage) happened only two years ago.
- They've been married for 10 years.
- They have no children, although Chantal claims to be able to have children.
Why, then, for the first 8 years of their marriage were there no children unless Chantal had reason to avoid it? Most of the reasons young couples have for delaying child bearing aren't relevant in this case. Did Chantal suspect Henri of a tendency toward pedephilia throughout their marriage?
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LWhite54 — 20 years ago(March 15, 2006 02:40 AM)
" Did Chantal suspect Henri of a tendency toward pedephilia throughout their marriage?"
No way, that wasn't it at all. Chantal simply didn't want to have kids, period, for a few of reasons I think. One, she didn't want to mess up her looks and body. Two, she was so jealous that she probably knew that she'd end up being jealous of her own child. And Three, there was something else going on there that we don't know about. Was she having an affair with her sister's husband? Was there some resentment toward her husband because she married him so young? The marraige was already falling apart, for some reason, before the 'incident' with Camille.
Layback
There are no stupid questions. Just stupid people ASKING questions. -
MoragMacGregor — 18 years ago(March 30, 2008 12:00 AM)
Looks like I'm 2 or 3 years late, but that gives me the advantage of reading ALL the posts.
I logged in because I just saw the movie for the 2nd time and the ending still left me going, "um.WHAT?"- The only reasonable explanation for Hearst's confession is that he is protecting Chantal. I would NEVER have figured that out on my own. And yes, the detective did say that Chantal gave them the photographs; he may have even said she got them out of his darkroom.
- Hearst's response that he didn't think she would go to those lengths only makes sense if "those lengths" are murdering the girls.
- I totally agree that Chantal didn't want to have children because she recognized her husbands obsession with adolescent girls. He met her when she was eleven, remember? They started having sex when she was like fourteen. She KNEW. She was already worried that she was too old to be attractive to him.
*** at the risk of inciting outrage *** please don't tell me that sex with a 14-year-old is "pedophilia". Pedophilia is sex with children. My great-grandmother was married at 14. The culture may have changed, but sex with a 14-year-old and sex with an 8-year-old are not the same.
*** I am a woman, btw, not a middle-aged man trying to justify being a perv. Hearst does leave me feeling like he's a perv. Just not a pedophile. - I also totally agree that the meat of the movie is the way the Morgan Freeman character "peels away the layers of [Hearst's] onion to the nub" until he admits that yes, he is attracted to young teenage women and he doesn't think there's anything wrong with it.
- I enjoy literary ambiguity when it allows for different levels of psychological interpretation, but this film is flawed by the
factual
ambiguities in the ending. The "
Huh?
" factor overshadows much of fine subtlety that precedes the truncated ending. - Am I the only one who was bothered by the fact that even the husband couldn't decide whether to pronounce his wife's name "Chantal" or "Chantel"?
Morag
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alicecbr — 18 years ago(August 13, 2007 12:59 PM)
I don't think he EVER thought his wife killed those girls, I think he was just driven to distraction by the betrayal by his 'friend', the cop, and his wife, and his general frustration with life. Maybe also his own conscience hurt him, "As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he." And he DID like young women/girls, as he said.
But he didn't kill them.
The illogical part is why a smart lawyer would let the situation get out of hand. When he first realizes his 'buddy' has done so much to investigate the case, he should have pulled in all the other lawyers.
"He who swaps his liberty for the promise of 'security' deserves neither." Ben Franklin -
zoomusicgirl87 — 15 years ago(July 13, 2010 11:53 AM)
I know this is old but it made me laugh that people watch something and don't understand it, yet post their version as fact anyway.
He didn't have the photos in his car, they were in the car of the real killer. Which is what the female detective was telling Morgan Freeman's character, and why they let Henry go. -
jgain — 19 years ago(May 14, 2006 04:44 PM)
I agree; that's the way I took it. Hackman was psychologically exhausted at the end, and he believed that he was guilty because everyone close to him thought so.
No lies to protect his wife, etc. He lied in the beginning because he didn't want it getting out that he was visiting hookers in the alley, and looking at young girls on the internet.
Hindsight being 20/20, if he had told the truth from the beginning it would have been better, but he thought he was going to be in and out in "10 minutes".. -
thornugc — 15 years ago(June 12, 2010 09:39 PM)
QUOTE:
this thread is completely OFF
Thomas never said anything that resembles "the wife told us where to find these." or whatevers
Henry confessed because he broke down through the interrogation and lack of belief from everyone around him.
and Henry lied at the beginning because he knew he had photos and some relations with the victims. and it will just complicate the matter. so a lie would make things a shorter process. well atleast he thought.
No it was not Thomas that said it, it was Morgan Freeman's character that said it. He said it as part of his ploy to pit the two against each other to get a confession.
Hackman did confess, not to protect her as one person offered, but because he was giving up. He was convinced that his wife's jealousy had caused her to set him up to prove a point. He says this.
I do believe that Hackman's character wanted children and loved children but not in a sick way. She thought he was a sicko with kids and she overreacted.
http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=21312696 -
codebreaker2001 — 20 years ago(March 07, 2006 06:12 PM)
Actually Owens (Tomas Jane) said "One hundred beep percent guilty". The line that you are trying to associate with the character is from Victor (Morgan Freeman), who actually says, "You're wife was kind enough to bring these out of your dark room." (or something close to this). But the like "The wife told us where to find these" was not mentioned in any way.
But this one's eatting my popcorn! -
icebeast — 19 years ago(May 17, 2006 08:09 PM)
while watching the movie i was initially excited that i had been caught so off guard. i thought the writer's blindsided me and that the wife had somehow set Henry up. i thought that Freeman's character was staring in disbelief at the wife, because he figured out that SHE had set her husband up and that she was about to be locked up. part of me wanted to have this ending, because the wife seemed so cold. i thought it would be fitting to have her switch places with henry and be thrown in the hot seat.
but by the time they sat on the park benches, i started thinking that the wife truely believe that Henry was a rapist/murderer. Henry truely believe that his wife had set him up. but he loved her so- that he confessed to the crimes.
when the pictures were (by my recollection) brought into the scene, it led you to believe they were found in HENRY's car. but then they explained it was in the "murder's" car. "they got him". if Chantel (wife) had been in on it, i do not think she would have had her accomplice rape and kill on a night that Henry was to give a speech in front of so many witnesses.
and, we never see anyone explain anything to Henry as to why he is released. maybe he is heartbroken that his wife had little faith in him.. or maybe he still thinks she set him up. -
albi_gjino — 19 years ago(June 04, 2006 11:32 PM)
He was heartbroken, thats obvious. Nothing there lets you think Chantel had anything to do with the murders.
Yeah, they should have told him why they released him. Now that I remember it, it was really stupid of the writers to release Henry like that. -
rocknviachicago — 19 years ago(June 06, 2006 02:19 PM)
I think some of you are missing the point when Henry says "I cant believe she would go to these lenghts". My intial response was that she was setting him up, but the murders are not what Henry is talking about. He is talking about Camille. Chantell has destroyed their marriage because she believed that Henry's relationship with Camille was inappropriate and she was jealous. She needs to have that jealously and suspicion justified, otherwise she is the one at fault for ruining the marriage. Thats the whole point. He is under suspicion by both his wife and his good friend for being nothing more than a man who is not getting any and loves children. The movie is about destroying a man through suspicion. It is also done visually as he enters the police station in a full tuxedo. Then the coat is ripped, he losses his hair, and eventually (as he confesses) he removes the tux. The major point is that Henry was already guilty before he stepped foot in the police station because they thought he was guilty. Victor thought he was guilty because he envyed Henry and wanted to destroy him. Chantell thought he was guilty because she was jealous of his relationship with Camille. And Opey thought he was guilty probably because he thinks everyone is guilty, lol. A very respected, upstanding, loving, gentleman had his life destroyed by suspicion from people with shakey motives. That's the message I got from the film, and Hackman even says that in the film very early when he's talking about why his neighbors would lie. It's laid out very carefully you just have to dig for it. Excellent movie, excellent performances, excellent message.
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Miss_Lovely1 — 19 years ago(June 09, 2006 05:02 PM)
This is what i came away believing from the filmthat chantal hired someone to carry out the murders, hence her looking so pertrified when the female police officer said theyd caught the guy in the act, she was afraid so she thought about topping herself, but was too vain..thought she could go back to her husband, and at the very end where they are sat on the benches and henry and Victor look at each other, Henry realises this and so does Victor.
all very presumptious i know, but that was my honest feeling straight after watching it for the first time, have since thought differently after watching it a few times although have seen things too also confirm it. the films what you want it to be eh?