Anyone think Jane was a bitch?
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — American Beauty
DevelopmentHell92 — 11 years ago(February 03, 2015 09:06 AM)
She was constantly critical towards Lester and Carolyn's parenting skills and thought they were uncaring towards her. But whenever Lester would try to connect or bond with her, she wouldn't let him, she just continued to treat him like crap. I loved it when Carolyn slapped her right in the face.
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niajean — 11 years ago(March 28, 2015 07:32 PM)
I think that she was a bit of a brat, but given how unstable her parents were, I think some of her behavior was justified. It's clear that she is essentially invisible in the house and Lester only approaches her to talk about his own problems or bring up Angela. Their parenting skills were terrible, but she also pushed them away whenever they made a genuine attempt to connect to her. All parties were at fault.
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forthesafetyofpuppies — 10 years ago(April 13, 2015 11:48 PM)
Not really. She was a teenager. Lester was visibly uninterested in attending her cheerleading event (most teenagers, even if they outwardly express the opposite), want their parents to take an interest in them and their activities. It's just basic parenting. Carolyn, too, didn't seem the most adept/interested "..and you didn't screw up at once!" Oh yeah, and there's her Dad shamelessly lusting over her friend (who, incidentally, I thought it a little odd that she seemed to be a new friend, neither parent knew her name, yet also close and BFF-esque).
I thought Birch's performance was wonderfully restrained. She seemed like a kid that was desperate for some genuine parental attention and affection.
There are two kinds of people in the world, those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.
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DevelopmentHell92 — 10 years ago(April 20, 2015 01:26 PM)
True. Lester and Carolyn were certainly no ideal parents, but the issue is, whenever they would try to meet her halfway, she wouldn't budge. So of course her parents are going to be absent in her life, what the hell does she expect? Communication is a two-way street.
As for Lester being uninterested in attending her cheerleading event, that was simply because he knew that she didn't want them to come, so he didn't see the point. -
Lester_Burnham_Risen — 10 years ago(April 20, 2015 05:46 PM)
As for Lester being uninterested in attending her cheerleading event, that was simply because he knew that she didn't want them to come, so he didn't see the point.
Yes and notice Angela's parents had stopped doing that some time before [they simply bought her a new Beamer] AND that Janie confirms to A that she hates it [contradicting her claim of being neglected].
notice how MS B in her small f feminist cocoon is totally oblivious to all this and just scowls when Lester says "she hates you too".
Finally Ricky puts Jane straight and can't say a bad word about own father who beats the $hit out of him and put him on drugs for 2 years [to alter his mind]
and the amazing Kodak Moment
http://www.kindleflippages.com/ablog/ -
forthesafetyofpuppies — 10 years ago(May 11, 2015 12:44 PM)
You aren't accounting for the Teenage factor.
As for Lester being uninterested in attending her cheerleading event, that was simply because he knew that she didn't want them to come, so he didn't see the point.
But she did want them to come, secretly. She articulates that fact to her new boyfriend when complaining about Lester's crush on her friend. I can't find/recall the quote, but she says something about wishing she was half as important to him. Even when she was saying how repulsive it was that her parents were taking an "active interest", IMO she was just "fronting" (as the kids call it) to her friend. Generally, most kids are desperate for their parents' approval and interest even through the teen years. I had mixed feelings about my Dad attending my football games through those years, but now, I'm grateful for it. It's just what (good) parents do.
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MovieMaster95 — 10 years ago(May 11, 2015 11:11 AM)
Oh yeah, and there's her Dad shamelessly lusting over her friend (
who, incidentally, I thought it a little odd that she seemed to be a new friend, neither parent knew her name, yet also close and BFF-esque
).
I think that nicely showed how little the parents actually cared or paid interest to their daughter's social life. They don't know who she hangs out with when not in the house. Later in the film, she spends the night at their neighbour's house and the parents probably weren't even aware of this.
"We'll be alive but like a nightmare. You drink blood, you won't wake up from nightmare." -
Studioart81 — 10 years ago(June 18, 2015 08:53 PM)
I guess I could go both ways on Jane's character. She looked troubled and depressed throughout much of the film, but I think that was the point of her coming from a dysfunctional family. As far as when she pulled away any time her parents tried to get close to her, would this not seem like the natural or instinctual thing to do when she feels alienated by them? How could one fully trust them and their intentions? Though we do not witness her break down and cry per se(unlike a lot of her earlier movies), she does convey the desperation in a different way by being less than kind to both parents. But how could one not be when her mother tells her she is unattractive and their appears to be little to no genuineness shown in their affection and interest toward her? So why would she not turn to the guy next door for attention and affection, despite initially appearing to dislike him? Not to mention the much worse situation the guy Ricky lives in with the abrasive ex-Marine, homophobic father and the delusional mother is enough to add credibility to the dysfunction. So all in all, I still liked her character despite her flaws.
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fiatlux-1 — 10 years ago(June 20, 2015 01:53 PM)
Easy answer: Yes. Jane was a serious brat.
Yes, her parents were pretty awful. But they had their own issues too, they just never communicated them with Jane in any way at all. This might have helped.
Parents complain that teens never share anything with them, but parents never do either!
Long story short: Jane was a brat but her parents should have realized it takes time to rebuild a relationship after its been damaged.
No one wanted to WORK at it. The whole film is about instant gratification.
I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus.
Didn't he discover America?
Penfold, shush. -
AngelCake56FJS — 10 years ago(June 21, 2015 07:06 AM)
Her parents really needed to get their beep together and they should also consider themselves lucky that Jane was not an out of control teen.
Parents should not be so critical of their children by calling them unattractive and giving them back handed compliments. "Oh great, and you didn't mess up one bit!"
Parents shouldn't openly flirt and oggle their underage teenage daughters friends. Jane realized that her father was not only a step away from adultery but with her friend. It also hurt that her father was dotting attention of her friend but not her.
Jane was already insecure majority of the boys preferred her friend over her, now her father prefers Jane's friend over her? By the way, she found out her father attempted to call her.
Okay, so Jane finally tries to confront her father over his inappropriate behavior, and he responds that she's turning into a bitch like her mother.
Not only do her parents fight in front of Jane they even try to include here. Jane tried to do the sensible thing and leave the dinner table but they forced her to witness.
The mother then tries to foolishly and confine and make it all about herself. When Jane doesn't give her the response that she wants she slaps Jane across the face. If that were me I'd be jumping up and down and enraged.
Jane was not a brat and she took her parents' behavior very well. She'd have to be a saint not to behave the way she did.
Her dad made an attempt to reach out but a very weak one and he burned his bridges with his verbal abuse and his crush on her friend. -
Lester_Burnham_Risen — 10 years ago(June 24, 2015 09:12 PM)
Her dad made an attempt to reach out
Ah yes, always remember the First Stone.
We see Lester ask very politely re school and Jane bites his head off for taking an interest, and confirms to Angela she HATES him taking an interest.
Lester finally stops bashing his head against the wall and STOPS taking an interest.
The main offender was of course the mother who SHOULD have supported the father when Jane lashed out but instead she just gave a nod as if to say "one to me".
http://www.kindleflippages.com/ablog/ -
v_anzaldua — 9 years ago(December 30, 2016 01:09 AM)
The mother then tries to foolishly and confine and make it all about herself. When Jane doesn't give her the response that she wants she slaps Jane across the face.
Yeah. After the slap, she talks about the living conditions Jane has in comparison to what Carolyn herself lived in at Jane's age. Okay, so what if Carolyn lived in a duplex? So what if Jane was living in a nice, two-story suburban home? Jane may have had "everything" materially, but emotionally and psychologically, she was missing time, love, attention, and guidance from her parents. Of course, they were too preoccupied (Lester, with his obsession with Angela) or too materialistic (Carolyn) to even do their jobs parenting Jane. -
AngelCake56FJS — 10 years ago(June 25, 2015 03:42 AM)
The father was just as bad, he never defended Jane against her mother. She was probably a Daddy's girl until he fell into a funk and became unavailable. By Jane's reaction when her mother hit her, something told me that wasn't her first time being hit. She didn't have her dad to run to. At the end of the day Jane may have the body of a woman but she's still a kid and her brain is still developing. Her parents should know better.
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Quicksilver1900 — 10 years ago(July 22, 2015 01:49 AM)
There was a serious lack of boundaries in that family, eg, the big fight the parents had with her there. Carolyn slapping her across the face for her sarcastic comment was way, way out of line. Jane was sullen and depressed, but really the most restrained of the three of them.
"I am always happy to engage in POLITE discourse." -
cartesianthought — 10 years ago(January 02, 2016 09:52 AM)
Not really. The way I see it, their family relationship was quite good when Jane was a child. Then when adolescence hit, things got rocky for her and her parents seemed to have abandoned her emotionally when she needed them the most. They worked longer hours and found it easier to ignore her problems than try to relate to them.
That's the thing about parenting, you need to be there during the critical time of their life (age 12-17). I've actually know lots of people who have told that it seemed like their parents just stopped caring about them after they turned 12 and stopped being "cute".