Punjabis obsessed about Punjab
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hariseldon99 — 17 years ago(May 11, 2008 03:40 PM)
Sikh Army:
10% HINDU
10% Sikh
80% Muslim
Eh? What now? There were no Muslims in the Sikh army. Else it wouldn't be a "Sikh" army, would it? Sikhism is a religion. There can be no "Muslim" Sikhs, just like there can be no "Christian Buddhists".
There were Hindus in the Sikh army (particularly the Kashmiri Pandits under Sikh general Ranjit Singh) but they functioned primarily as strategic advisors rather than combatants.
I think you're confusing Sikh with Rajput. There were Muslim Rajputs in the Rajput Army. Rajput is an ethnicity, so there are both Hindu and Muslim Rajputs.
Maratha Army:
85% Hindu
15% Muslim
0% SIKHS
I'll have to look this up properly, but I seem to remember a blurb written by John Keay (a famous historian) that Marathas would recruit Sikh mercenaries into their armies, particularly during the last of the great Panipat battles.
But yes, the Maratha armies were predominantly Hindu, although there were liberal numbers of non-fanatic Muslims as well. In fact, the Islamic fanatic Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb had a fatwa passed by his imams that any Muslim who joined the Maratha army would automatically be declared an apostate of Islam and subjected to the death penalty if caught. Nonetheless, Maratha Muslims preferred to join the Maratha Army because the Maratha Emperor Shivaji had a good relationship with the local Islamic clergy (he had a Sufi Muslim "pir" for an advisor).
Get your facts straight please.
Liberalism is dauntingly powerful. But the one force it does not have on its side is truth. -
getemthatsright — 17 years ago(May 14, 2008 07:23 AM)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh_Empire#Sikh_Empire_.28Unification.29_.281801-1849.29
The religious population demography of the Sikh Empire was Muslim (80%), Hindu (10%) and Sikh (10%)[5]. The once strong empire was severely weakened after the death of Maharaja Ranjit Singh in 1839. The Empire ended, with the British Empire annexing its territory in 1849, after the Second Anglo-Sikh War.
The 80% of the muslim pop of the Sikh empire were Hindu to Muslim converts. They were told by muslim rullers that if they convert they will be treated as equals but once they converted they were treated as low caste muslims. Hence there loyalty to Sikhs and eventualy turned Sikh, Brahmin Hindu fanatics did not allow them back this is what i hate about the caste system. Sikhs abolished caste system which was good untill recently Sikhs have decided to be either Jatt, Labana, Gurusikh etc
When the brits came and invaded India the Maratha and Sikh Empire held there own but all Sikhs know this when M Ranjit Singh died his desendents sold the Sikhs out to the british as slaves hence the Sikh army being involved in W1 and W2. The Rajesthanis did the same with Gurkhas The Gujaratis did the same gave there ppl up as slaves to work in the Africa suger fields. So did the Tamils and Marathas which were sent to Fiji and West Indies.
When the british left India they returned all land back to the people and since they stole most of the land from the Maratha they felt it right to give it back to the people which it was stolen from. Hence the Maratha people voted for democrocy and getting rid of royal families. Rajesthani, Punajabis and Gujaratis lost there Kingdoms because majority of the land in the country belonged to the Maratha and now they had the final say of the entire country.
So in final Sikhs were not the only saviours of Hindus if this was true then the British empire would have left the country to the Sikhs or the Muslims if they had the finial outcome of India's history.
Sikhs did do a great lot for the people of India no doubt about this but to say it was all Sikhs work it secured Indias future and Hinduism as religion is complete bs. If hindus did not start gorila warefare against Islam 800years priyor to Guru Nanaks brith the Sikh empire would have been fighting a loosing battle because every one would have been an arogant muslim and would not let any other religious group continue.
what pisses me off is that my ancestors come from a long line of noble kshatriya who have bleed for India in the past and still do to this day are pushed aside because some one decided to give all the credit to the Sikhs.
I know the history of India because it runs through my blood. -
punditz — 17 years ago(May 15, 2008 01:38 AM)
@getemthatsright
Thats one hell of a history lesson(as well your previous post)
"what pisses me off is that my ancestors come from a long line of noble kshatriya who have bleed for India in the past and still do to this day are pushed aside because some one decided to give all the credit to the Sikhs"
I really dont think thats the scenario around brother.
Khatriyas(or Rajputs) are still looked up with respect.
As for Sikhs, they have unfortunately fallen pray to "sardar jokes" and other sardars-are-dumb kinda potrait painted by the popular media.
"Yeah it's chaos, it's clocks, it's watermelons, it's everything. " -
hariseldon99 — 17 years ago(May 11, 2008 04:17 PM)
The whole of India seems to be obsessed with Punjabi food, culture, song, dancedont blame the punjabis for it. And this "small" state has protected for the rest of India for over 600 years, the borders which would have otherwise meant entire N India being pakistan today?
If you have an issue, see a psychologist or something or just switch off the TV. And besidesPunjabis identify themselves more as Indians than someone especially from Assam or Kerela does!
Heck that's exactly what I've been saying. All this anti-Punjabi racism is stupid bollox. Plus, the green revolution in Punjab means that they pretty much feed half of North India.
Punjab is the closest thing to paradise we've got nowadays. Chandigarh is a fantastic city. Cleaner and better infrastructure than Amsterdam, even.
I haven't met an unpatriotic Punjabi in Punjab yet (a few nutty Khalistanis in Canada moan about once in a while, but people in Punjab find them as offensive as anybody, just read Khushwant Singh's writings on the topic). Hell during my college days I was a genuine Marxist beep (I'm not one anymore, I became a neoconservative in 2003) and hated India like any good Communist does. I used to get into fights with Punjabis all the time because they were patriotic and didn't appreciate my (back then) anti-India views.
Liberalism is dauntingly powerful. But the one force it does not have on its side is truth. -
punditz — 17 years ago(May 15, 2008 01:16 AM)
@hari dada -
"All this anti-Punjabi racism is stupid bollox"
It aint racism boy.
"Punjab is the closest thing to paradise we've got nowadays"
Not only this statement extremely exaggerated its also gives an insight into the uninformed poster(thats you seldon), sitting on his laptop far away from his motherland.
Seriously seldon, when was the last time you were in India??
Dont go about making statements that you dont know much about.
"Yeah it's chaos, it's clocks, it's watermelons, it's everything. " -
hari_seldon99 — 17 years ago(October 09, 2008 12:14 AM)
the north indians/aryans are culturally and ethnically different form the south indians/dravidians.
There is some truth to that, but the differences aren't as collossal as partisan politicians claim.
Not all north Indians are Aryans though, and not all South Indians are "Dravidian". These distinctions were more pronounced 5000 years ago, much less so nowadays.
There has been a fair amount of intermarriage/interbreeding over the centuries. The Oriya in Orissa, for instance, incorporate elements of both ethnicities.
The racial ethnography of India is very very complex and still not fully understood. It would be unwise to reduce it to a few soundbites as you did. -
Miss_Weasley_Potter — 17 years ago(December 10, 2008 07:51 AM)
Hey, hey, hey. First of all, what is this talk about Punjabis being obssesed with themselves? Everybody shows what they know best and obviously, Punjabis would know themselves best so they would automotically do that.
Now, I never questioned why a Punjabi was shown in this movie but since you have, I think the simple reason is that there are a lot of Punjabis living in UK. Yes, so are Gujarati but once again, Chadha is Punjabi so she would know the typical jokes, the cliches, the silly little prejudices et al. It's just natural.
Why do you have to make sucha big deal out of this? I mean, let's face it, Punjabis are pretty fun loving! And I am not a Punjabi in case you think I am being..what the word? 'regionalist'.
It's sad that it's people like you who keep going on about Punjab, Gujarat, Bihar, Maharashtra. What is the big deal? Now, next thing you will complain about is, why is the industry always shown to have so many Punjabis in it? Take Fashion for example where so many of the characters were Punajbis.
I could question, why are the security guards always shown to be Nepalis? And the poor guys, Biharis?
It's just one of those generalisiation type of thing.
That is it.
And as for the Aryan-Dravadian thing, phew, it happen millions of years ago, no point in fighting about that.
If you are afraid of losing, then you daren't win. - Bjorn Borg -
MacbethMacbethMacbeth — 16 years ago(May 13, 2009 01:58 PM)
I don't know whether to find this offensive or just an opinion.
Because Punjab is holy for Sikhs, it's where Sikhism began. Punjabi's have suffered from descrimination from other religions in India which probably makes them feel like Punjab is their only home.
Bangra and Punjabi language is part of the culture and Punjabi's are very cultural. That's just how it is.
The whole reason Chadha made the film was to use it to portray her culture.
My heritage is Sikh Punjabi and trust me, we DON'T sing Punjabi songs all the time and I don't speak Punjabi. We aknowledge we're from India but Punjab is the holiest for us.
Oh and her character in Mistress Of Spices wasn't from Punjab.
P.S.
No bitchyness intended
