Are Katie and her friends the first to watch the video?
-
Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — The Ring
luanasosarodriguez — 9 years ago(October 28, 2016 11:56 PM)
I don't know why, I always thought the video had been around for much longer, although I didn't have an explanation as to how it came up. Then I read that Samara "recorded" it on the tape where Katie and her friends were going to tape the football game and it made sense, since she was right there underneath the cabin.
Which makes me wonder, were they the first ever to be in that cabin? Why she didn't do it before? -
termigreen — 9 years ago(October 29, 2016 02:22 PM)
It's never made explicit, but yes I do believe they were the first to watch it and, in fact, inadvertently had it made in the cabin. I also used to think the tape was already there and perhaps they just took it from the check-in to record over it, which of course failed. I'm sure they weren't the first to be in that cabin, but likely the first to try to record something off the TV in there.
There are several cabins at the Inn, and the place is dead almost all the time. So I think the odds are low that someone would both rent that particular cabin and have a VHS they wanted to watch or record. More than that, if others have seen it, there would have been more attention towards and documentation about people dying under the mysterious circumstances of a sudden heart attack/heart failure with a characteristic decomposed, horrifyingly distorted face; information that someone as resourceful as Rachel would have come across in her research. So this film chronicles the origin of the curse's outbreak. -
Jandersonu2 — 9 years ago(October 29, 2016 10:54 PM)
It's been a while since I've seen this, but as I recall, when Samara was in the mental institution the doctors held up some photographic negatives and asked her how she made them. They were negatives of images that we later saw in the haunted movie. This is Samara's power, she can manifest film, or at least imprint her own images onto film. So, she dies in the well and her spirit haunts it. Someone builds a cabin near the well, and she has to wait until someone invents and brings a VCR to the cabin so she can manifest her film again, but this time imprint her images onto moving film and not just photo negatives.
-
termigreen — 9 years ago(October 30, 2016 10:11 AM)
Originally, when she (under the control of whatever evil resided in her) imprinted the images onto the photo negatives, it was likely just to invoke fear in the people around her, as opposed to downright killing them. After she was thrown down the well, seems like the spirit became enraged and used its projecting powers to torment and kill.
-
NickiDrea — 9 years ago(November 26, 2016 12:32 PM)
I don't think they were the first to experience those images. Before Katie, who did watch the tape, even tells Becca that the tape existed, Becca asks Katie "have you heard about the videotape that kills you when you watch it?" and then goes into an elaborate explaination about what happens when the tape is watched. Some of her information is inaccurate (i.e., what is said after the phone rings) but most of it is accurate. And at the time that Becca told Katie about the tape, it doesn't appear that anyone in Katie's group of friends that watched the tape had died yet. In order for Becca to have been able to tell Katie the story,'including that the tape killed people, she must have heard about it before the day Katie died. Therefore there must have been other people who watched the video and died, creating the "urban legend."
In addition, kids other than Becca and Katie knew about the tape (we find this out at Katie's funeral), at least one kid attributed Katie's death to the tape. They clearly didn't learn about ithe tape from Katie, who didn't even know about the tape until Becca told her, and who died that night. They also didn't seem to learn about it from Becca, who got committed to a mental institution the day she told Katie about the tape.
Plus, look at the video of Samara in the hospital. She tells the doctor she plans to make everyone suffer. Are we really supposed to believe that she waited decades for some random kids to come into a cabin with a blank tape to start exacting her revenge?
Samara's father also implies that others have seen the images and died from them- "the pictures the things she'll show you". Rachel replied that her son would die. Samara's father knowingly says "yes, he will."
Katie and her friends are not the first people who have experienced the images and Samara's father is clearly aware of it.
I actually think that there is a bit of a plot hole in the movie about the making of the tape. I agree that it seems unlikely for a bunch of people to come to the cabin with blank videos to watch. Therefore it seems implausible that many people could have been victims of the tape. However, we know that other people have obviously seen the tape or at least the images and been killed by it.
That hexagon-face bitch, she's so passive-aggressive. -
termigreen — 9 years ago(November 27, 2016 08:38 AM)
I don't think they were the first to experience those images. Before Katie, who did watch the tape, even tells Becca that the tape existed, Becca asks Katie "have you heard about the videotape that kills you when you watch it?" and then goes into an elaborate explaination about what happens when the tape is watched. Some of her information is inaccurate (i.e., what is said after the phone rings) but most of it is accurate. And at the time that Becca told Katie about the tape, it doesn't appear that anyone in Katie's group of friends that watched the tape had died yet. In order for Becca to have been able to tell Katie the story,'including that the tape killed people, she must have heard about it before the day Katie died. Therefore there must have been other people who watched the video and died, creating the "urban legend."
In addition, kids other than Becca and Katie knew about the tape (we find this out at Katie's funeral), at least one kid attributed Katie's death to the tape. They clearly didn't learn about ithe tape from Katie, who didn't even know about the tape until Becca told her, and who died that night. They also didn't seem to learn about it from Becca, who got committed to a mental institution the day she told Katie about the tape.
As I stated in the other thread, these kids are in high school; word spreads around very fast and gossip is the norm. It is completely plausible for Becca and (some of) the friends at the funeral to have heard about the tape if one of the other 4 kids who watched it secretly spread the information about the tape around. That only these high school kids knew about the tape, and no adults, supports the idea that it was spread around in gossip. It also supports the possibility that the tape started with these kids. That would explain why the other kids didn't learn about the tape from Katie or Becca; there are still 3 others.
Plus, look at the video of Samara in the hospital. She tells the doctor she plans to make everyone suffer. Are we really supposed to believe that she waited decades for some random kids to come into a cabin with a blank tape to start exacting her revenge?
Actually, yes we are. Samara never told the doctor that she plans to make everyone suffer; her words never implied that. She said she does hurt people, which she's remorseful for, and that it won't stop. This was in response to the doctor saying she doesn't want to hurt people. Basically, she doesn't want to, but it's out of her control.
As for waiting for decades, it seems like you missed out on, or forgot, key plot points in the movie. Samara can project images onto film, among other surfaces; that's the limitation with her telepathy. It may have taken decades for cabin 12 to be built over the well, and definitely as long for a VHS player to have been installed there. Consider also that Shelter Mountain Inn is almost always dead quiet, and that the VHS feature was only added later after some complaints. It's completely possible, then, that it would take this long for the kids to be the first victims of this videotape curse.
I don't disagree that the kids weren't the first to experience the images, but it wasn't through a videotape and it definitely wasn't a 7 day curse at the time.
Samara's father also implies that others have seen the images and died from them- "the pictures the things she'll show you". Rachel replied that her son would die. Samara's father knowingly says "yes, he will."
Again, I explained this above and the film explains this. Samara had the ability to project images into people's minds. When she was alive and with the Morgans, Anna suffered horrible visions, as did other people on the island. What Richard is referring to with the pictures are the visions they all suffered, and he never said anybody died from them. His response to Rachel can mean one of several things; it could have been cynicism during his final fit of insanity; or it could be implying that Aidan may be driven to death/suicide the same way.
Katie and her friends are not the first people who have experienced the images and Samara's father is clearly aware of it.
You're not wrong about this, but it definitely wasn't through the cursed videotape.
I actually think that there is a bit of a plot hole in the movie about the making of the tape. I agree that it seems unlikely for a bunch of people to come to the cabin with blank videos to watch. Therefore it seems implausible that many people could have been victims of the tape. However, we know that other people have obviously seen the tape or at least the images and been killed by it.
Not a plot hole if you consider the above. We do not obviously know that others have seen the tape. We do know that others have suffered by the images, but these people were the inhabitants of the island, including Samara's parents. The only people we know for sure who were killed by these images are Samara's parents, and it was a secondary cause at that (ie, suicide), not direct. -
edwintrinh09 — 9 years ago(December 07, 2016 03:30 AM)
Actually if you watch near the end of the film when Rachel receives flashbacks from watching the mental hospital footage of Samara, Samara's face clearly shows she intends to make everyone suffer. She only said sorry to make herself innocent but her look of pure rage and malice suggests otherwise.
Also, to explain your previous point on why there was no mass documentation of people dying under mysterious circumstances with deformed faces as a result of watching the cursed tape, no one knew where the tape came from. People who have never heard of the tape (if you watch the movie carefully) are skeptical of its supernatural origin and believe its a prank (Katie even confessed this) so its likely that none of them were convinced to report the tape to the authorities etc. Its literally the entire point of why the character of Rachel was created since she's the only one who's bothered to investigate the tape since the recent victim of the tape was her niece.
In the deleted scenes, Rachel discovers a notebook in a cabin that contains diary entries of those who already stayed so its most likely that there were others who were killed by the curse. Videotapes were first invented in the 50s and Samara was thrown in the well around 1979 (I think it states that she was 9 when she died please correct me if I'm wrong) so its highly likely that the curse had already
long
existed before the movie.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videotape#Early_formats -
termigreen — 9 years ago(December 07, 2016 07:15 AM)
I am aware that Samara's face is malicious in the flashback. However, keep in mind that her tone also contrasts what Rachel heard on the tape. Both of these aspects changed for the flashback as part of perpetuating the big revelation. It's not so much that that was her actual facial expression and tone.
Regarding mass coverage of the tape, learning about its origins should have no bearing on conducting investigations of a characteristic unknown cause of death that has supposedly affected people over the years. That might be a secondary discovery in their search, and authorities will likely discover the tape itself, but investigations on the deaths would be done regardless, and there would be considerable media coverage of this problem. This is especially true when it has only (or mostly) affected the same town over the past several years/few decades.
That Kate assumed it was a prank was just an initial reaction; if you re-watch the scene, it's made clear that she believes it's more than just a prank. That doesn't really support the tape's long-time existence, or the opposite argument.
I never saw that deleted scene, but that would be a valid point towards the tape's longer existence if the diary entries explicitly mentioned the videotape. As far as the year of the invention of videotape, keep in mind that invention does not correlate with affordability and common household usage. -
edwintrinh09 — 9 years ago(December 08, 2016 11:39 PM)
But as you see, people won't know what the tape is about since people would simply dismiss the deaths as mere heart attacks. Katie's mother explains this in the beginning in how most of the doctors couldn't explain it so most likely the case would be closed and many people in the town also seem to be skeptical of the supernatural so they most likely will dismiss the tape as well.
Also, videotapes were popularised in households around the 70s so its plausible that the videotape had long existed. -
termigreen — 9 years ago(December 09, 2016 07:44 PM)
My point wasn't about determining the tape to be the cause of death; again, that could be collateral. It was about shining a light on the epidemic of inexplicable heart attacks (or other deaths), especially when the victims are all in the same town and do not fit the profile of being at a high risk of CVD. I tend to give the general population its due credit that they'd realize something is off if there has been a higher incidence of uncharacteristic heart attacks over the decades, all in the same town; especially if even some of these victims share a horrified, disfigured face in death.
That people don't know about the tape and even managed to dismiss these suspicious deaths as merely due to natural causes only supports the notion that the problem only recently surfaced.
Videotapes first entered the market in the 70's, yes. The VHS itself was introduced to the public around '75. However, it only actually became popularized when it became affordable, and that wasn't until well into the 80's. But this pertains to regular households. Again, we're talking about one out of at least 12 cabins, and only under certain conditions, at a barren, rural inn. Who knows how much later the inn was built, let alone could afford TVs and VCRs. -
edwintrinh09 — 9 years ago(December 10, 2016 11:05 PM)
Can you summarise the origins of the cursed tape now? Did Katie and her friends simply find the tape lying in the corner of the cabin. And how can you explain the long waiting time period that Samara waited for in the well until she unleashes her vengeful murder spree on her first victims? What was she doing the entire time?
-
termigreen — 9 years ago(December 11, 2016 10:28 AM)
The tape's origins can be pieced together by what the film provides (and by sampling, albeit very minimally, from its source material).
First, the power of Samara (or the spirit that possesses her body) that is relevant to the tape, and to the trouble she caused while she was alive, needs to be made clear. The Japanese term is
Nensha
, or projected thermography. It is a form of telepathy where one not only imprints images into another one's mind, but also onto surfaces (ex: film). Careful viewers will catch the movie establishing this through the scenes presenting Samara's case files and video-captured study at the institution, in addition to the accounts of the local villagers.
It is safe to argue that she cannot use this power to a considerable enough range; otherwise she would have continued to wreak terror much more easily and more consistently throughout the years trapped in the well. This, as well as the desolation around the well, the time it would take before Shelter Mountain Inn began operating (let alone added VCRs to their service), easily explains the long dormancy period. As for what she was doing in the well, we can only guess that she was trapped and unable to do anything with the lack of any nearby human presence, which only further enraged her over the years.
The tape Katie and her friends saw is easily explainable given this information. We know that they wanted to record a football game at the inn, and they just happened to be unfortunate enough to choose Cabin 12, which was built directly over the well. So while they thought the match was being recorded on a random blank VHS tape they brought, Samara used her projected thermography to instead create the curse on it. Thus began the vicious cycle of the cursed tape.
Again, given the following factors, including conditions that need to be satisfied, the probability does not support the tape having existed even a few years:
-The well is in a very secluded, rural area surrounded by forest
-Shelter Mountain Inn needs to have been built
-The inn has at least 12 cabins to choose from, one of which is built above the well and is therefore the only relevant cabin
-VCRs need to become affordable to the public, which doesn't happen for several years after Samara was thrown down the well
-The inn, with its poorly active business, needs to be able to afford television sets, let alone the VCRs some time later
-The inn is clearly nowhere near an active business
-The visitor(s) would need to choose cabin 12 specifically, from pure chance, out of all the others
-In addition to the previous factors, said visitor(s) would need to bring a VHS tape with them to view at said cabin -
edwintrinh09 — 9 years ago(December 14, 2016 02:49 AM)
So you're basically telling me that the moment the teenagers used the random VHS tape to supposedly record the football match, Samara immediately burned images onto the tape? Wouldn't that take a long time though and wouldn't the teens notice her powers going into effect? Also, if they were the first ones to watch it, how did Becca know the story already which Katie was so upset to hear about (which couldn't haven been since if she was part of the group of that watched it first and spread the story around school, she wouldn't be as shocked with someone else retelling it).
-
termigreen — 9 years ago(December 14, 2016 02:34 PM)
Yes, that is basically what I'm saying. The one possessing Nensha/thoughtography is able to project the images/thoughts onto the surfaces and it isn't at all a long process; the rapid sequence of images that the movie presents when Katie and Noah die alludes to this. The kids brought a blank tape to record the football match, and Samara's evil spirit took this opportunity to burn those images onto the tape. However, I should clarify that the spirit could have burned the images onto the tape at any time it was inside that cabin (ie, near the well and therefore, the spirit), not necessarily while they were trying to record onto it.
This isn't like a cartoon where supernatural phenomenon is always accompanied by visual or auditory cues/hints/effects. The use of Nensha could be entirely invisible and silent. So, the creation of the tape happened right in front of them and they were completely oblivious to it.
Keep in mind that 7 days passed when Becca recounted the story to Katie; 3 others besides Katie watched the tape and any one or more of them could have spread it around. However, although the story would spread fast, it's very possible that Katie did not become aware of the proliferation until Becca told her that night. -
edwintrinh09 — 9 years ago(December 15, 2016 05:11 PM)
So where was Katie during the 7 days? How could've she've NOT known that the story about the tape was a viral topic amongst many of her friends? As far I'm concerned, she seems like a popular girl and she shouldn't been so shocked if her friend told her about the legend since she already has knowledge of it.
-
termigreen — 9 years ago(December 15, 2016 09:07 PM)
Nobody has a a definite answer of where she was in those 7 days. I try to work with what is given and what is most plausible than simply relying on conjecture, such as her popularity. Keep in mind that she was afraid and likely disturbed during that week.
It's actually pretty easy to be oblivious to a story spreading around; just because it happens fast doesn't mean EVERYONE learns about it, let alone in less than a week. Given what she experienced in the cabin and during those 7 days, it's not at all unlikely that isolated herself from most people.
Personally, I think shock is a very appropriate reaction if I were to hear someone retell a story involving something terrifying I experienced, 7 days later when the "7 days" bit was part of the experience. Especially if I was unaware any of the other 3 that also experienced it told others. -
edwintrinh09 — 9 years ago(December 16, 2016 05:05 AM)
Ok now I get the gist. I was thinking about this earlier but maybe why Katie was so shocked about Becca retelling an experience she already experienced with her friends was because she literally isolated herself from the world in those 7 days, hence why she didn't know how the story became so popular. As you can in most of Samara's victims, they often isolate themselves and become paranoid with nightmares and mindlessly draw images of her so its safe to presume that Katie had to skip school because of it. And this probably explains why Katie was able to confide to Aidan about her experience with the curse even though its obvious that a popular high school student involved in a secret love affair like her would lack the time to geuninely spend some alone time with her relatives, let alone one that is a child.
Teenagers often have to talk with younger people because they're obliged to by their parents but in the case of Katie, its a different situation so that further proves my point on how serious the situation she was in. Man, its sad when you realise that Katie died on the day she finally got to have fun and hang out with her best friend on their sleepover on a fricking Saturday night. -
termigreen — 9 years ago(December 16, 2016 12:37 PM)
That's a very plausible scenario. To add to it, it could also be that whoever of the other 3 friends who told the story did not do so until near the end of their 7 days. This would be fitting because they, like Katie, may have still been shaken up by what they saw; so they may have spread the story much later, when they felt a bit better after some time had passed and warmed up to the possibility that it was a prank. Hence, the story may not have gained traction right away, but certainly soon enough to make the rounds.
In the context of Katie, you're right, it was a difficult situation for her. She couldn't confide what happened as that would have to include disclosing spending the night with Josh, which she didn't exactly want to talk about.
I kind of feel like that sleepover was somewhat on Katie's request, as she may have been afraid about what might happen to her on that 7th day. And again, she couldn't really speak to anybody (save for Aidan) about what she was experiencing. So imagine the dread and terror if one of your close friends recounts the cause of your troubles as if it were an urban legend; just as you thought it was safe to unwind. -
edwintrinh09 — 9 years ago(December 16, 2016 10:18 PM)
I kinda agree with you but this still doesn't explain why Samara would wait so long for her revenge in the well. She looks like a person that would easily snap in a murderous rage and I used to think that during her time in the well, she was using her hate and powers to keep herself alive (like the Japanese version) or was mutating into a humanoid ghost.