Joss Whedon and his fans
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Phillip Marlowe — 10 years ago(April 09, 2015 09:43 AM)
It's hard to compare the shows since Firefly was so short-lived. Ultimately, Firefly was never given the time to establish the complexity and depth of Buffy and Angel. The greatest strength of all these shows was their finely honed characterizations, and this needs a lot of time to be properly developed. However, I can say that Firefly's 14 episodes were overall even better and of a higher quality than the first 14 episodes of Buffy and Angel. And that's high praise from me since I regard Buffy as the best TV show ever with Angel not far behind. And the first 14 episodes of those shows were pretty darn good IMO, although not as good as the heights both shows would reach later. It's a real tragedy that Firefly was never given the chance to develop over multiple seasons.
As for Dollhouse, I think that show was just an utter disaster, starting with the insanity of casting one note actress Eliza Dushku in a part that demanded she play multiple very different characters, often in the same episode. To say that she was not up to the challenge is being kind. (I do know that the original Fox deal was with Dushku, so there was no option of casting another actress. But the concept of the series was Whedon's and he should have come up with one more suited to Dushku's "talents.") I did stick with it to the end, believing that Joss Whedon was incapable of creating and overseeing a show this bad and that it would improve. Unfortunately, he was and it didn't. -
pgFiSheYe — 9 years ago(May 03, 2016 06:25 PM)
It's hard to compare the shows since Firefly was so short-lived. Ultimately, Firefly was never given the time to establish the complexity and depth of Buffy and Angel. The greatest strength of all these shows was their finely honed characterizations, and this needs a lot of time to be properly developed. However, I can say that Firefly's 14 episodes were overall even better and of a higher quality than the first 14 episodes of Buffy and Angel.
^ This, plus
IMO Firefly's 14 episodes were overall even better and of higher quality than the first 14 episodes of any series, even Game of Thrones (which I like) -
mertzi — 10 years ago(April 10, 2015 05:52 AM)
watch Buffy! And make sure you start watching angel synchronised, chronologically. The shows don't entwine often but it is necessary if you want to understand everything. Buffy might seem a little tacky at start but it gets better the whole series. Also you need to realise the rare CGI can be pretty bad, not comparable to the CGI in firefly. I re-watched firefly recently and I can't understand how a TV show from 2002-2003 could have that good CGI.
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theater_dreamer — 10 years ago(July 01, 2015 03:02 PM)
I haven't really watched the other shows, but I don't know how
Firefly
could be the weakest of them all. I have no doubt that Buffy and the other series are quite good, but the network screwed
Firefly
up from the beginning ("sorry, we don't like this pilot. Can you write and shoot another in two days, please?"). I mean, how do you take the two hour premier, meant to introduce viewers to the world and all the show's characters, and then stick it at the very end?
Serenity
, the pilot, was the last aired episode before cancellation. Then, the show was promoted as an action/comedy hybrid in space.
What?
While there are comedic elements, absolutely, and there are moments of real actionFOX completely dropped the ball in every possible way a series could be handled.
"Tony Soprano is a trash man, and head of an Italian-American family trying to make good. Check out
The Sopranos
, a real laugh riot, new this fall on FOX!"
Thank God they didn't get that classic. Jackie Aprile would have died in season three, two years after Tony and the crew toasted him at the Bing.
FOX are a bunch of neanderthals collectively, and while I am not a violent person, if I could meet the half-wit that made the ultimate decision to take
Firefly
off the air, I'd cold cock them in a heartbeat.
Just look at the episodes that were aired, and the ones that were released on DVD/Blu that were
not
. As much as I
love
the early ones, the later ones are even better.
Heart of Gold
and
Objects in Space
are in my top five of the fourteen. If the plug hadn't been pulled, there's no telling how high the Serenity would have flied. It's in the stratosphere already, as it is.
I will never, ever give out hoping that there will be more. Even if it's just another movie, I will go to my grave believing that the Serenity will fly again. Joss will make it happen somehow.
Never for the sake of peace and quiet deny your convictions-Dag Hammarskjold -
preachcaleb — 10 years ago(July 02, 2015 06:20 AM)
I have no doubt that Buffy and the other series are quite good, but the network screwed Firefly up from the beginning
That's part of the reason. Buffy and Angel were able to tell their stories over multiple seasons. There's a progression and evolution to the characters filled with gripping story arcs.
Firefly, sadly, never got that far.
That being said, Firefly had the strongest first season of all three shows. If it had been allowed to continue, I have no doubt, it would've become the best of the three and would be known as Whedon's magnum opus.
Can't stop the signal. -
AngelGG — 10 years ago(July 02, 2015 02:27 AM)
Buffy is a masterpiece.. HOWEVER - please don't give up on it in the first season, as overall it's really cheesy and basically, quite crap. I watched from season 2 and at the end of it bought season 1 and 2 on dvd so i could watch it all from the start.. and i was like.. is this the same show? I watched it through and have done so multiple times, as when I watch Buffy i have to do it 1 through 7 properly - and season 1 is BY FAR the weakest. Just put up with it and know, that for sure the best is yet to come. Season 2/3/5 and 7 are my favourites, i still have a soft spot for the very dark 6 but it's not my favourite, and although season 4 has one of the best episodes of television ever (hush), it's still not my favourite season either.
Angel had it's flaws but the first three seasons especially were excellent, the way they went with Cordy never really flew with me.
If you want to watch it all in chronological order, watch the first 3 seasons of buffy, then season 4 of buffy/1 of angel, 5 of buffy/2 of angel, 6 of buffy/3 of angel,7 of buffy/4 of angel, then 5 of angel is a standalone so to speak, watch that last. It has a sort of open ending though as it was prematurely axed so if you are up to it i would read the follow up comics on how the story continues. I was totally satisfied with Buffy's ending, it was done to perfection IMO, so I never followed the story after that, but of course if it was ever on again i would watch it in a heartbeat. SMG is buffy though so i'd never watch it without her and allison hannigan. I hope they never ever ever reboot it with different actors, if it ever continues and even if SMG is 50 by then LOL i'd still rather it be her.
To this day no show has had me caring about the characters as much as Buffy.. the emotion was intense.. and it was about kids coming of age and dealing with the everyday challenges of life as much as it was about vampires and monsters- it all blended together perfectly and never got too soap-ish. I don't know how Joss does it but he is a master at having you really feel for the characters. -
BubbleBobbleTaito — 10 years ago(July 03, 2015 01:37 PM)
All true. Don't let Buffy season 1 stop you because it is very bad. I would have quit watching if it didn't air at dinnertime for me. But season 2 truly is a masterpiece.
You have to get into Angel too but its worth it. For me Alexis Denisof takes this show to amazing heights in the way he plays Wesley. (I love the storyline "The father will kill the son").
You get to see familiar faces of you watch these after Firefly. Malcolm Reynolds is in the last season of Buffy, Zoe & Jayne are in Angel. -
India_Ana — 10 years ago(August 03, 2015 10:03 PM)
etc.
http://tinyurl.com/TwilightSagaBoard
http://tinyurl.com/ProWhoosh -
marousha_n — 10 years ago(August 25, 2015 10:20 AM)
Firefly was his lucky hit. The other shows are cheesy and aged bad. Soap disguised as vampire shows. Also Dollhouse sucks. But the hordes of fans will tell you that I am insane. You should try them, but none of his work is even close to Firefly.
"Relics of ancient times. Lonely cenotaphs. Standing along that melancholy tideland." -
preachcaleb — 10 years ago(August 25, 2015 03:37 PM)
Firefly was his lucky hit
I love Firefly, but it was his least hit. One season.
Even Dollhouse had two.
Soap disguised as vampire shows.
What disguise? All the writers have said the shows were at their best when they dealt with the soap opera elements of their characters. There was no disguise. They were unashamedly awesome for it.
Can't stop the signal. -
marousha_n — 10 years ago(August 26, 2015 12:07 AM)
I watched Buffy back in the times. Then it seemed fine. Not great, not something you didn't want to miss. But now? I tried re-watching, it is hideous. It aged bad and it's dumb. As simple as that.
Firefly was his lucky hit, because it's the only good this he has done.
"Relics of ancient times. Lonely cenotaphs. Standing along that melancholy tideland." -
preachcaleb — 10 years ago(August 26, 2015 06:04 AM)
Nah. I rewatch Buffy every year. It's still as powerful as ever. The effects might not be up to par, but the story telling is still amazing. The characters as engaging as ever, and the comedy always hilarious.
Firefly was amazing and I love it. Had it gone on longer, I might've loved it more than Buffy. As it stands though, its one season can't compare to Buffy's entire series.
Can't stop the signal. -
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electricshysta — 10 years ago(September 04, 2015 06:04 PM)
Single season or not, I think Firefly is the best thing he's ever done.
I watched Buffy first when it initially ran, saw both that and Angel all the way through, and while they are for the better part pretty good shows (with some hit and miss episodes) with some interesting and endearing characters, some great twists and turns and pretty good overlapping/continuing/recurring themes and storylines - in their 8-or-so seasons each, they never once made me feel the way Firefly did.
So for me, it's no.
They were good, but to me they're about a 7 with occasional raises, to fireflys perfect 10. -
MaximumMadness — 10 years ago(September 10, 2015 12:01 PM)
I haven't watched
Angel
or
Dollhouse
yet, but I've seen the first four seasons of
Buffy
and I'd highly recommend it.
It can definitely be hard to get into because it's first few seasons are incredibly dated, and it turns some people off. But if you can look past the obvious "90's-ness" of it all, it's an amazing series. (I personally find it nostalgically charming and it adds another dimension for me because it reminds me of the decade of my childhood.)
And FURTHERMORE, this is my signature! SERIOUSLY! Did you think I was still talking about my point? -
poem — 10 years ago(September 14, 2015 01:34 AM)
IMHO:
Firefly was going to be Joss Whedons masterpiece. The dialogues, the characters, the storylines are all absolutely awesome.
BtVS is his journeyman piece. Already very, very good, but not as good as Firefly. Still it has "Buffyspeak", kind of its own language.
Angel, he only really was there for that in season five. Before he mostly relied on the writers he gave to that project, since he still had BtVS and he was also doing Firefly at one point. Some people still prefer this over BtVS, I dont know why. They claim its more "adult" and that it surely is. But its very low on humor, the romances are typically less intense, its all very dark, frankly I dont get why anyone prefers this. Still theres plenty of good episode and storyarcs.
IMHO his weakest piece so far was Dollhouse. Season two was better than season one. Still theres a tendency to call it Dullhouse.
Then theres his Avenger stuff and his smaller projects.
All in all Joss Whedon projects IMHO so far are all worth it.
You shall have no other Kates before Kate Winslet.