Dogville v Manderlay
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movieguru51 — 19 years ago(January 28, 2007 08:17 PM)
My only problem with MANDERLAY was the sameGrace
Her character would not, post Dogville, have responded to Manderlay in that manner.
Give me any other character in the same role and I'm fine with the film.
Grace has made the choices to re-join her parentage in the seat of power and retribution.
She was travelling down the road with her "gang" in tow when she came upon Manderlay.
I'll give her a short stop for curiosity but she's not spending the night.
I always set time aside to watch Lars films. Dogville has absolutely impressive.
I put it in the category of "Films Like No Others".origonals
He tackles the "Anysmalltown Anywhere" mentality and the insidious mature of nasty humans very well.
One of my long time bedside reads is Erich Fromm's ESCAPE FROM FREEDOM
philosophical discussions on why people do or don't choose freedom
I think Lars was reading my book.
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qwerty609qwerty — 18 years ago(May 04, 2007 02:19 PM)
For me, both movies deal with a religion issue. In Dogville we have the Jesus story, but with a totally different ending, where the Father (GOD) takes action. She wants to save them, but they don't want to be saved. In Manderlay the main character is like the gnostic Sophia, an unexperienced, young and proud goddes, well intentioned, but fallen (notice that she can't go back to her father, again the GOD). She is responsable for her creation ("you made us") and she has to fight against Mam's law (should you read Man'n law).
So, the movie's a related both in film technique and subject, but their are almost independent (from Grace's point of view, there are certanlly 2 different ones) -
anneof1000 — 18 years ago(May 11, 2007 04:32 PM)
I liked Dogville better as well. I think only because the film making seemed more startling perhaps?
Also, I am a big fan of Howards but Kidman is top knotch in Dogville, really her best workso, I did appreciate her performance more as well. -
Tchoutoye — 14 years ago(October 21, 2011 07:14 PM)
For me Dogville worked better because the viewer knows nothing about the Grace character and therefore it is easer to identify with her. This makes the changing of roles (from welcome guest to "slave" etc.) more compelling and the ending all the more shocking.
I had a much harder time identifying with Grace in Manderlay. Even though she may not be exactly the same Grace as in Dogville, we already have expectations about her so there is less curiosity. Furthermore she comes across more like Tom in Dogville: a know-it-all yet exacerbating do-gooder, the type of character which is always rather annoying. -
soo_z_g — 14 years ago(March 12, 2012 08:59 AM)
I totally agree with you and others on this thread. While Manderlay was uncomfortable in a good way, raised issues which require thought and discussion, and, overall, worked for me, I found Dogville a much more powerful film. I was much less emotionally engaged by Manderlay and had much less sympathy for Grace, I think in part because of the content of the films but also due to Kidman's amazing performance in Dogville. Dogville is mentioned in Manderlay, so it certainly struck me as terribly odd that a character who has gone through what Grace went through in Dogville hadn't gained more awareness. In retrospect, I have to agree with others in this thread that Von Trier intentionally portrayed Grace as obtuse and having learned nothing from her past experience.
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collinfrey26 — 12 years ago(April 01, 2014 09:05 AM)
I felt that Manderlay was more entertaining then Dogville and I didn't notice the lack of set as much. However, after watching Dogville, I felt as if I read a novel and truly connected to the characters; I did not have these feelings with Manderlay. I feel like I will end up watching Manderlay more often but Dogville will always be the entry that left the most profound effect on me.
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Melton1 — 4 months ago(November 25, 2025 12:04 AM)
Dogville is a 10/10 masterpiece.
Manderlay is a very strong 8.5/10 sequel.
To be honest I wonder if it was always planned as a sequel, because Grace feels like a totally different character. In Dogville she was heavenly and pure but also carried an air of potential danger - remember when Moses the dog first meets her, he ‘snarled at… a force to be taken seriously‘. She is beautiful, graceful, humble and forgiving, but subtly powerful.
Of course, she gets taken advantage of in the most horrific ways and by the end transforms into an angel of death, but she never seemed
naive
.
Bryce Dallas Howard’s Grace feels like the bratty younger sister of Nicole Kidman’s original. This new one seems naive, young, obnoxious, preachy and frankly… an idiot. It feels true to the script and is obviously what Von Trier wanted, Howard did a great job, but I wonder if the original idea was retooled into a Dogville ‘sequel’?
Grace seems to have morphed from a Christ figure into a bleating Liberal activist
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