is that they know exceptionally little about our country, yet feel compelled to not only comment on it, but to try to ge
-
comixunlimited — 17 years ago(June 12, 2008 01:26 PM)
It's just so tiringit's like, there is this weird sense of european arroganceI dont mean to offend, I really dontThis bizzare sense of entitlement to attack our (american) culture, and somehow point fingers at us, like we are some villian or someone to be mockedAnd whats so frustrating, is that its just the most baseless uninformed attacks that get just accepted as gospel by so many ive spoken to. Americans get the fallout for trying to fix the middle east after centuries of cultural rape and actually genocide commited by europeansyet now isreal and by extension america, are the cause of these issuesnot the 1000+ years of european attrocites in the regionno, its only the last 40 or so that count. We also get somehow taged with slavery aloneas if it wasnt dutch and spainish and french who were the actual slavers who raped/murdered their way across africa, and destroyed that contient and the hundreds of millions therebut becouse 1/20 slaves BROUGHT to the western hemisphere ended up in america, we get the tag of slavery aloneNot the vast majority who went to european colonies/extensions in caribeen and S. AmericaAmerica alone catchs the fallout. I mean, god, of course it was horrible and wrongbut we have reworked out society to not only fix it, but to curb the lingering effects its had centuries down the road. What other culture does that? We are the only one founded purely on law and principleand we offer the greatest chances of (in many peoples views, hence the mass immigration here for 400 years) success and personal fulfillment possible in the worldGod, i just hate this is all. We are by no means perfect, but damn we have done a hell of a lot of good for all of our flaws. We have done more to help and protect people then any other culture out there. We have by no means commited anywhere near the greatest attrocities of any culture in history, and the ones we have , we struggle with every day to not only fix, but to ensure they wont happen again in the futureOh well, I love my country, what can i say. Im just tired of people trashing it when they have no business doing so.
-
jimmers — 17 years ago(December 01, 2008 03:52 PM)
Just to be clear on this, Germany declared war on the USA - not the other way around.
And quite honestly all the points [American] people raise about Von Trier making films about things he hasn't experienced first hand can be levelled against popular American culture for sticking to silly, unfounded national stereotypes. The smelly, cowardly Frenchman; the uptight Englishman who lives in a mansion; the drunken Irishman; the lazy Spaniard.. blah blah.
The average American probably won't know much about Denmark or New Zealand or Paraguay; but you can be DAMN sure we all know about America. And how do we see ourselves portrayed on American tv or film if we are allowed a mention? By whatever idiotic, pejorative national stereotype they can pluck out of the air.
We perceive people how we want to, or how it best suits our mood. Types 1 - 7, it's easy.
We [Europeans] think all Americans are fat, moronic, xenophobic imbeciles; you think we're drunks/lazy/have bad teeth/whatever. What's the difference? -
eyesky — 17 years ago(December 06, 2008 05:57 PM)
I mostly agree with you op, you say Americans don't comment on other cultures, but they doparticularly with disgusting, redundant stereotypes. Lars von Trier is analysing your culture meticulously I can't grasp how that's a negative thing. It seems to me you're being sensitive (I can understand this in certain situations), excessively almost, and suggesting if this film were created by an American filmmaker, it'd somehow be more valid. You must understand your country has a very heavy international presence its culture must therefore be open to probing by international citizens. It's their right.
-
gbrycki — 16 years ago(May 18, 2009 11:18 AM)
you say Americans don't comment on other cultures, but they doparticularly with disgusting, redundant stereotypes.
Ppffftt. I see the same stereotypes utilized in foreign films. Next?
Lars von Trier is analysing your culture meticulously
Ppffftt. And how do you figure he is "analysing" us "meticulously" if he's never set foot on our soil? No, rather, he is reacting to things he has no first hand, eye witness accounting of. Thinking you "know" something because you've seen it in a film or read about it is nonsense. You have to experience something to know it. Think you know about sex if you've never had it? You may fancy you dobut, sadly, you don't.
I can't grasp how that's a negative thing.
That's it right there.you can't grasp it. However, now that you've been schooled, perhaps you can!
-
eyesky — 16 years ago(May 18, 2009 04:35 PM)
I never claimed they didn't (they do) - "stereotyping" is undoubtedly a necessary tool in conveying a filmmaker's meaning of something or enhancing a film's entertainment value. Americans sometimes portray French, Russians, Aussies, Asians, whatever, as caricatures, for comedic or dramatic purposes - you may not be partial to that interpretation, and vice versa, but suck it up if it's not the most harmful thing in the world, for the sake of "freedom of expression" (not to sound dramatic or anything) what are your thoughts on the Islamic Republic censorship bureau, and their wanting to ban/cutting up "Persepolis", or the Russian Communist party's outrage over Cate Blanchett's performance in Indiana Jones, or the assassination of Theo Van Gogh? I doubt you think they're justified
If our countries didn't value different perspectives, even if they involve criticism, then what would they look like? Those films are the most important.
"Ppffftt. And how do you figure he is "analysing" us "meticulously" if he's never set foot on our soil? No, rather, he is reacting to things he has no first hand, eye witness accounting of. Thinking you "know" something because you've seen it in a film or read about it is nonsense. You have to experience something to know it. Think you know about sex if you've never had it? You may fancy you dobut, sadly, you don't."
SoI haven't visited America, therefore I know nothing about it? That is ridiculouswe live in a globalised world - your country can be studied through a variety of mediums. An analysis does not have to be based on first-hand experienceI'm Australian, I have a lot to say about your country (socially, economically, politically, historically, etc.), I've formed many an opinion based on materials and Americans and news stories I've engaged with - all Lars von Trier requires is curiousity, not a ticket (besides - he can't fly, that does not deny one an opinion on the most influential country in the world! Goodness, why bother with even covering international news then?). Everyone in the entire world does it on a daily basis, domestically - of Iraqis and Iranians, of Australians, of the North Koreans, Russians, Chinese. von Trier's films are opinion pieces, his perspective - nothing else matters.
"Next?" -
SeisCinemaSeis — 16 years ago(November 24, 2009 04:31 PM)
Another showcase of the rampant hypocrisy from the inhabitants of the US and A.
Lars is only picking at that huge hypocrisy from many (not all, of course) yanks.
How many times we have seen Hollywood portraying the "vices" of other nations in the most grotesque and despicable way? How many propaganda films about how beep great is Amuhrrika have produced Hollywood in the last 90 years?
Practically every other country have been vilified ad nasueam by hundreds if not thousands of movies that depicts africans, latin-americans, europeans, asians, etc. no better than savage beasts.
In how many Hollywood films the villains are always: arabs, latinos, germans, frenchs, russians, slavs in general, japanese, chinese, north-koreans, vietnamites, cambodians, africans, spaniards, turks, even englishmen and canucks!?
But don't dare you to make a movie about one BIG truth on the very recent past of the USA because then you are the worst scumbag in the history of mankind! Hypocrites!
Recently across USA everybody was celebrating the fall of Berlin Wall, but at the same time the US government is rising a bigger wall in the border with Mexico, pushing honest and humble hardworkers who are only looking for a decent job, to cross across the merciless desert.
MORE people have died because of that Wall in the border in the last 2 years than whole the people who died while trying to leave East-Berlin since it was built until it was demolished. What about that?
Don't chicken out from your own vicious past. USA practically exterminated native-americans. Stole whole the south-west after imposing an unfair war on Mexico, african-americans were used as slaves for centuries and even now, african-americans and other minorities are treated like 2nd class citizens. Face it!
And what about Vietnam? Cambodia? Laos? Korea?, Somalia? Afganistan? Iraq? Nicaragua? Honduras? Guatemala? El Salvador? Dominican Republic? Grenada? Haiti? Cuba? Should I continue?
Who fully supported the rogue fascist dictatorships around the world during the cold-war? Who helped to dethrone democratically elected governments just because they were "leftists"? Does Chile? Guatemala? Argentina? Brazil? Spain? rings you a bell?
EVERY modern nation have its share of crimes and unjust acts against either their own population or another countries. Lars is only pointing out to the fact that USA is not better than any other country in that regard. But when frenchs, spaniards, english, germans, russians, japanese, etc. Are all of them reflecting on the crimes commited by their countrymen in the past. USA citizens apparently still believes that they are the embodiment of ALL the good things on earth, that they are superior, chosen by God to guide the rest of the world, etc. Sorry to burst your bubble but you are NOT! You are like us, perhaps richer and better armed (one thing leads the other and vice versa), that's all. Open your eyes, you are not alone, the world existed long before you and will exist after you (unless you start a nuclear war with China or Russia). And the world will miss you as much as we miss the macedonians, romans, the napoleonic empire, the spanish empire, the mongols, etc. Your good deeds will be appreciated and your crimes remembered.
Try to left behind a better heritage to the mankind instead of continuous invasions to weaker countries in order to control their natural resources. Try it. I've met lots of US citizens and I know that most of you are good people. I still believe in you, IMO Lars as well, believe it or not. -
Howlin Wolf — 9 years ago(December 06, 2016 09:10 AM)
People are entitled to comment on things, even if they're wrong That's the freedom of speech that you guys love.
You're free to comment on my culture all you want; I'm thick-skinned enough to take it The fact that you DON'T is your fault, not mine.
Films are an expression of ideas; they are not a definitive expression of culture but if one director puts out their 'idea' of that culture (even if they don't live there), then we are entitled to comment upon that That's a free exchange of ideas, instead of censorship of everything that falls outside of a certain proscribed narrative.
Who says he has 'gravity' or authority'?? I doubt even HE would say that; it's just a perspective, an opinion Take it or leave it, but don't say it can't be offered!
If people could only make movies about things they've experienced personally, then the choice available would be pretty boring!
Consider my argument:
I don't think Lars Von Trier hates America. his films are more about 'ideas' than equations where there's a definable answer at the end.
The fact is that America represents the most useful canvas that exists in the world right now to play these ethical quandaries out on because of both the vastness and variety reflected in its population and influence.
America is a wonderful melting pot of all different races and identities, and what it's supposed to represent offers us the chance to integrate and truly understand one another better. The flip-side against that is human nature and our tendency to exploit the vulnerabilities in one another for our own personal gain.
So the problem isn't 'the system', but how we as people work within that system. America is just singled out because it's perhaps the world's most prominent superpower. So, in a way, Americans should be proud that the U.S. is so visible that outsiders are constantly trying to comment on it or affect it! They see it as a model to implement progress everywhere else, because if America changes, then the rest of the world changes too
In other words, America is so diverse from one state to the next, that you can do lots of different creative things with its individual elements I see that as a GOOD thing!
"Your mother puts license plates in your underwear? How do you sit?!" -
Zoomorph — 9 years ago(December 15, 2016 10:02 PM)
Dumbass, Lars is not criticizing America in this film. He's criticizing the SJW mentality that all races are equal. He's criticizing the concept of "freedom". He's criticizing love of democracy.
Around half of modern Americans are smart enough to hold similar criticisms. In the past, that number was much higher. Not all Americans are dumb, even if the majority are becoming dumb. And - here's the important thing - Europeans are in the exact same position. Criticizing modern liberal stupidity, a problem affecting the entire World world, is not criticizing America.
Finally, criticism isn't such a bad thing. Whether it's by foreigners or not. Instead of chimping out and chanting "MUH AMERICA!" maybe you should think about the validity of the perceived criticisms and try to form a rational response.
~ Observe, and act with clarity. ~