Should Harvey Dent or Selina Kyle have been introduced here?
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AndrewGS — 9 years ago(October 14, 2016 11:26 AM)
I think it would have probably been better if Rachel had become Two-Face (same role in BB aside from learning Batman's identity) or Harvey had had her role or very similar in BB. Harvey is done pretty well in TDK but the love triangle is annoying and on the other hand Two-Face could have benefited from having the closeness with Bruce (and more closeness and working together with Gordon).
I'm not real fond of TDKR's Selina and don't see how she would have benefited from or developed a better relationship with Bruce by being introduced earlier. -
glynis23-282-577521 — 9 years ago(October 14, 2016 01:08 PM)
Rachel becoming Two Face or another villain like Red Hood would been a better arc for her. Could've made it like Earth One have Rachel be Dent's sister and have Dent's death cause her to snap. The love triangle ruined it even further because all they did was make Rachel come off as cold and unsympathetic.
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Slaterson420 — 9 years ago(October 14, 2016 10:05 PM)
or Harvey had had her role or very similar in BB
Perhaps they could have taken the Rachel Dawes character and split her up into three different characters; Harvey Dent, the ally in the DA's office, Selina Kyle, the love interest, and Dr. Leslie Thompkins, the friend from the past who's disappointed in Bruce Wayne's lifestyle until she learns the truth. Harvey Dent wouldn't need to have a role in Batman Begins as big as his Dark Knight role. Just establish him as an idealistic district attorney who wants to take down the mob, so instead of having to establish Dent's goals or motivation in the Dark Knight, more time could be used to show a darker more trouble side to Dent to make the transition to Two-Face more believable.
I'm not real fond of TDKR's Selina and don't see how she would have benefited from or developed a better relationship with Bruce by being introduced earlier.
Truth be told, there's a lot about the Dark Knight Rises I'm not fond of, but if we're being honest, the movie had to fill a hole left by the death of Heath Ledger, so they overcompensated and crammed a bunch of elements into the movie that didn't really work well together. The first two movies were crime sagas as much as they were superhero movies with a large focus on organize crime, but Selina Kyle was established in the Dark Knight Rises, which used the "Harvey Dent Act" to abandoned the organized crime angle and was sort of just a pure superhero movie. If she had been introduced in the crime world that was in Begins or Dark Knight, she could be developed much differently that how she was introduced in the Dark Knight Rises. In Year One and the Long Halloween, she is seen robbing Carmine Falcone repeatedly, and in When in Rome, she is investigating the possibility that Falcone is her biological father. Even if Heath still died and the movie still ended up a huge mess, Catwoman could have been an entirely different character had she been introduced earlier.
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AndrewGS — 9 years ago(October 15, 2016 08:02 AM)
Perhaps they could have taken the Rachel Dawes character and split her up into three different characters; Harvey Dent, the ally in the DA's office, Selina Kyle, the love interest, and Dr. Leslie Thompkins, the friend from the past who's disappointed in Bruce Wayne's lifestyle until she learns the truth. Harvey Dent wouldn't need to have a role in Batman Begins as big as his Dark Knight role. Just establish him as an idealistic district attorney who wants to take down the mob, so instead of having to establish Dent's goals or motivation in the Dark Knight, more time could be used to show a darker more trouble side to Dent to make the transition to Two-Face more believable.
I'm not sure how Selina would have gotten to know Bruce or why they would be attracted to each other, a love interest aside from a friend from the past doesn't seem to fit with how driven Bruce was in BB.
A part of the appeal of Two-Face is that as Harvey he worked closely with Gordon and Batman so the role probably should be somewhat substantial but yeah, it would be better if a second film was able to go more into his dark side rather than trying to establish all aspects of his character.
I'm not real fond of TDKR's Selina and don't see how she would have benefited from or developed a better relationship with Bruce by being introduced earlier.
Truth be told, there's a lot about the Dark Knight Rises I'm not fond of, but if we're being honest, the movie had to fill a hole left by the death of Heath Ledger, so they overcompensated and crammed a bunch of elements into the movie that didn't really work well together. The first two movies were crime sagas as much as they were superhero movies with a large focus on organize crime, but Selina Kyle was established in the Dark Knight Rises, which used the "Harvey Dent Act" to abandoned the organized crime angle and was sort of just a pure superhero movie. If she had been introduced in the crime world that was in Begins or Dark Knight, she could be developed much differently that how she was introduced in the Dark Knight Rises.
If she had become Catwoman in the second film (appearing in the first film or not) that could have been a fine addition to the idea of escalation and unintended consequences (although I have issues with Catwoman suddenly taking on the costume and being an effective criminal and fighter aside from a supernatural aspect like in BR although I guess she could have had years of offscreen training and just suddenly take on the costume). It could be a good dilemma for Batman if she was primarily stealing from and hurting the mob. -
glynis23-282-577521 — 9 years ago(October 15, 2016 02:46 PM)
I'm not sure how Selina would have gotten to know Bruce or why they would be attracted to each other, a love interest aside from a friend from the past doesn't seem to fit with how driven Bruce was in BB.
Could've had Bruce met her at a party or have her as a little girl/street theft seeing the Wayne murders like in Gotham. -
TheAstor — 9 years ago(October 15, 2016 03:38 AM)
I think introducing both Dent AND Kyle would be too contrived, it's not necessary, there's no reason or need for Bruce to have met her at such an early stage.
But for Sure Dent could have been Rachel's boss instead of the other guy.
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Slaterson420 — 9 years ago(October 15, 2016 04:11 AM)
Well it might be hard to squeeze Kyle in there, I can see Dent being inserted into scenes without him over crowding the movie. Remember that other guy at the DA's office who was dating Rachel who ended getting got shot after opening up Falcone's crate? You could replace him with Dent easily. Maybe introduce him as Rachel's boyfriend when Bruce is visiting Gotham for Joe Chill's arraignment. I could seem him at the scene where Falcone gets busted. He could also be inserted into the scene where Bruce Wayne and his model friends are having dinner, maybe say a thing or two about Batman and establish who he is. Maybe add one or two scenes of him talking to Gordon or whatever, but at most that just adds like 90 seconds to the run time. Now with Catwoman, sure, you'd have to squeeze in yet another subplot and work it into the grand scheme of things, but Dent could easily have fit into Batman Begins.
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TheAstor — 9 years ago(October 16, 2016 09:23 PM)
Remember that other guy at the DA's office who was dating Rachel who ended getting got shot after opening up Falcone's crate? You could replace him with Dent easily.
Yeah, that's what I said. They weren't dating btw.
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/.ㅤ — 1 year ago(September 15, 2024 10:34 AM)
It might be kind of hard to squeeze Selina Kyle in there, I can see Dent being inserted into scenes without him over crowding the movie.
Remember that other guy at the DA's office who was dating Rachel who ended getting got shot after opening up Falcone's crate? You could replace him with Dent easily. Maybe introduce him as Rachel's boyfriend when Bruce is visiting Gotham for Joe Chill's arraignment. I could seem him at the scene where Falcone gets busted. He could also be inserted into the scene where Bruce Wayne and his model friends are having dinner, maybe say a thing or two about Batman and establish who he is. Maybe add one or two scenes of him talking to Gordon or whatever, but at most that just adds like 90 seconds to the run time.
Now with Catwoman, sure, you'd have to squeeze in yet another subplot and work it into the grand scheme of things, but Dent could easily have fit into Batman Begins.
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