Retrospective
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Ace_Blazer — 12 years ago(February 02, 2014 05:43 PM)
The fact of the matter is that the theatres are simply different and the 1st Marines suffered through the most hellish campaigns the Americans ever faced. In his book, Eugene Sledge mentions that because replacements were killed or wounded before they even made their unit's muster list, statistically the casualty rate of the infantry units was 150% between Peleliu and Okinawa.
The Germans would be singing songs on Christmas, while the Japanese blew up Corpsmen trying to help injured troops. At Okinawa the shelling was so bad that the Marines couldn't evacuate their own dead and left them there to rot right beside them until the battle was over.
From those numbers it's no wonder that Okinawa produced the highest PTSD rates for US forces in the whole war. There is a reason the last episode made such a stark contrast between Asian & European theatre vets. -
nickm2 — 12 years ago(February 02, 2014 10:55 PM)
From those numbers it's no wonder that Okinawa produced the highest PTSD rates for US forces in the whole war. There is a reason the last episode made such a stark contrast between Asian & European theatre vets.
Not to mention that even though the IJN is no longer a factor & Japan is being 'hemmed in' from all sides, it's cities are being bombed into ash, and the logistical noose is tightening all the time on the home islands & and the Allies' 'teeth' are almost on Japan's JugularIN SPITE of all that, there seems to be no end in sight & no sign of victoryall they see ahead of them is blood & death & the enemy seems to be as determined to die fighting as ever. No wonder people went a little 'farky'; -
belgol5671 — 11 years ago(August 15, 2014 07:23 PM)
1.Do you still like the Pacific?
Yes. I've seen the entire series six or seven times and it's always great.
2. If you could, how would you change or improve it?
Expand on Iwo Jima, and add Saipan to the story.
3. Do you think it is worthy as a spiritual Successor to Band Of Brothers?
There's not much spirituality in The Pacific, but Sledge and Snafu have some memorable lines about how they felt about fighting the Japs.
4.Do you think more movies should be made about the Pacific War or other untold stories?
I'd like to see more WWII movies, but I don't think the masses do. I recently bought the History Channel series WWII In HD. Absolutely fantastic! -
belgol5671 — 11 years ago(August 15, 2014 07:25 PM)
1.Do you still like the Pacific?
Yes. I've seen the entire series six or seven times and it's always great.
2. If you could, how would you change or improve it?
Expand on Iwo Jima, and add Saipan to the story.
3. Do you think it is worthy as a spiritual Successor to Band Of Brothers?
There's not much spirituality in The Pacific, but Sledge and Snafu have some memorable lines about how they felt about fighting the Japs.
4.Do you think more movies should be made about the Pacific War or other untold stories?
I'd like to see more WWII movies, but I don't think the masses do. I recently bought the History Channel series WWII In HD. Absolutely fantastic! -
nickm2 — 11 years ago(August 16, 2014 12:53 PM)
I did like 'The Pacific' but not as much as 'BoB'; also, it doesn't seem to have gotten as much 'repeat play' as BoB has.
Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!? -
partsman — 11 years ago(August 17, 2014 07:54 AM)
Personally I connected more with The Pacific than I did with BoB. I love them both but prefer The Pacific myself.
The only improvement I can see would be a little less on the love stories. I understand why they did them, but considering Lecke's story was completely fabrication why drag it out so long. Also it was too much of a stretch in my opinion. It's the 1940's and he's banging this girl right in her families home and they just let this strange American G.I. just move right in. -
nickm2 — 11 years ago(August 17, 2014 08:12 AM)
Well I had heard that Australia was VERY welcoming to the Marines when they returned from Guadacanal; in any rate most families had their sons in the service so the Marines were often treated as 'surrogate children'. I'm sure a bunch of teen/twentysomethings who may die in the next few months would probably have the 'hormones raging'; Nevertheless, I too feel the love stories were overdone.
PS: I wonder how "Masters of the Air" will handle this: Flying death defying missions during the day & during the night you're partying your ass off in London.
Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!? -
dannieboy20906 — 11 years ago(August 18, 2014 07:22 PM)
leonglapgong;
1.Do you still like the Pacific?
2. If you could, how would you change or improve it?
3. Do you think it is worthy as a spiritual Successor to Band Of Brothers?
4.Do you think more movies should be made about the Pacific War or other untold stories?- Yes, but I can't watch it often. It's too horrific and painful.
- I wouldn't change a thing.
- No, it is not a "successor to BoB in anyway. It is a companion piece.
- Yes, I look forward to Masters of the Air and I'm watching Manhattan on WGN.
My answer here is also an answer to another thread on this board about showing the Japanese point of view.
The Pacific is not an "anti-war" film. It is an honest war film and no sane person can watch an honest war film and not want to find an alternative method of solving international issues without fighting.
Band of Brothers allowed us to follow one company of soldiers from the beginning to the end of the war. We got to see them train, bond, suffer, some die, and to ultimately triumph with the majority surviving. Their camaraderie binds the survivors to this day. There were few stories like that in the Pacific Theater of Operations, the China-Burma-India Theater of Operations, the or the Southwest Pacific Theater of Operations.
There is a clue to one of the differences. This secondary side of the war had not one, but three theaters of operations. Our forces, as well as the Japanese, were spread out over more than a third of the globe.
I don't think any single company of Marines fought through the war and stayed intact, so we could not watch them train, bond, and triumph the way E/2/501 did in BoB. In addition, the ware in the Pacific was fought for the first two years, 1942 and 1943 on a shoestring. The Navy withdrew and left the Marines to starve on Guadalcanal for nearly a month because they had no choice. Our Navy was so weak after Pearl Harbor and until the industrial might of the United States reached the frontline in 1944 that we were at a severe deficiency in everything. We lost four or five cruisers in the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal and had nothing left to defend the transport ships.
We fought the entire war in the tropics and sub-tropics. It was three years of ugly scrambling through incessant rain, oppressive heat, and debilitating diseases against an implacable enemy that did not believe in surrender or taking prisoners. Pardon me, BoB, I respect the hell out of all you guys, but the entire European war, from the landings in North Africa through the Battle of the Bulge to the occupation of Germany, including the Normandy landings was a cake walk compared to the war against the Japanese anywhere. And the British had more soldiers in it than we did in some parts.
We were fighting an enemy that spoke a radically different language, was smaller and weaker than us on an individual basis, as well as a nation, but was willing to hide a hand grenade on his person in an effort to blow up one of us along with himself. We killed 107,000 out of 110,000 Japanese soldiers on Okinawa. Okinawa is a Japanese prefecture, one of their "states." The civilians were all Japanese nationals and the Japanese army did not defend them, but used them as "walking sandbags." We killed (or the Japanese army killed - using them to clear minefields or to stop bullets) at least 100,000 Japanese civilians on Okinawa. Some estimates run as high as 150,000. My first wife was Okinawan. Her father and his four brothers were all in the army serving in other locations. They all survived the war. Her mother had a brother and two sisters. She (the mother) was sent to Kyushu to live with relatives outside Nagasaki. She was the only member of her family to survive. Both of her parents, both sisters, and the brother, all of the children too young to fight and the parents too old, all of them died during the Battle of Okinawa.
We had no way to understand our enemy. No common reference points. It was like fighting Martians. The Pacific War is thought by many to have been Robert Heinlein's inspiration for Starship Troopers. We were thrilled to discover near the end of the war that the Japanese were actually afraid of what we could and might do to them.
The Pacific is beautiful to watch, much the way a nuclear detonation is beautiful. The release of energy is so massive that it is awe inspiring, and the destructive results are so horrible to view that we cannot help but be impressed, but we don't want to see it again.
General Lee said "It is good that war is so terrible, lest we learn to love it too much."
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nickm2 — 11 years ago(August 19, 2014 09:30 PM)
We had no way to understand our enemy. No common reference points. It was like fighting Martians.
Very astute point; more than one veteran had stated that the Japanese fighting style was so incomprehensible, it was almost like fighting 'smart' animals rather than people.
Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!? -
partsman — 11 years ago(August 20, 2014 05:47 AM)
Many of the Marines, like E.B. Sledge were never fully able to forgive the Japanese or lose their animosity towards them. While I think for the most part the veterans of the European theater saw the Germans as just soldiers in war doing their duty like themselves.
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natalie0407 — 11 years ago(October 12, 2014 02:41 PM)
1.Do you still like the Pacific?
Absolutely. Maybe even more so than when I first saw it. It's held up very well.
2. If you could, how would you change or improve it?
Change the actors for Basilone and Sledge parts. Wasn't convinced by either.
In retrospect, I wonder if the chronological order was a wrong choice because it highlights the series' main weakness, i.e. the lack of continuous narrative. It's basically three movies woven together with mixed results. What if, instead they told Basilone's story first, then Leckie's, and, finally, Sledge's? It might have been a bit confusing to a casual viewer but then again, it probably is anyway.
3. Do you think it is worthy as a spiritual Successor to Band Of Brothers?
I don't view it as a successor. They only have a few things in common: WWII and a miniseries format. Other than that, they're quite different. In fact, I wonder if comparisons to BoB was the main source of disappointment for some viewers. While I liked BoB, to me, The Pacific is more ambitious of the two, with a larger scope to deal with.
4.Do you think more movies should be made about the Pacific War or other untold stories?
Absolutely. Maybe because I'm from Europe but I'm somewhat burned out by the European theater while the Pacific (and other theaters) are a lot less known to me. -
tony-sobon — 11 years ago(November 13, 2014 06:26 PM)
Its still a good show , but BoB was a lot better. I agree with BOB having 9.6 rating and Pacific 8.3.
The Pacific spends to much time with soldiers outside of battle , it ruins the overall experience. Also the story jumps around between diff story arcs , with only 10 eps. its hard to get invested in the soldiers. -
sandcrab277 — 10 years ago(April 01, 2016 06:52 AM)
showing the too much of the bloody gore in numerous battles does not a movie makenor is it the only way to show the pain and anguish i especially liked the scenes done in australia and camp pendleton and the soldier's homes where the human side of could be visited up close and personalmore than any other scene in the film, i could relate best to lena's loss of her finally found beloved husbandno more future for themi've watched band of brothers many timesit was a different type of war in europe so i'd never compare it to island hopping logistics or coping with monsoon rainsthe marines have my respect
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MrMojok — 9 years ago(May 03, 2016 04:48 PM)
I think they did just what they needed to, which was to make something a little different from BoB.
I was, and am, a huge BoB fan. When I first watched the Pacific, on Sunday nights as each new episode aired, I felt a little underwhelmed. When it was over, I liked it, admired the craft that went into it, but overall I felt like it wasn't as good as BoB. But about a year later when I had a long weekend, I rented all the Pacific episodes from our last local Blockbusters as it was closing, and marathoned them all.
After that weekend I had a whole different view of the series. Where Band of Brothers is about this group that you follow through training, through their baptism of fire, and through to the end, the Pacific is more about the effects of war on the individual.
In this sense, Sledge's character arc was fantastic. I realize it's a bit crass to talk about a real man who experienced these things and call it a character arc, but Spielberg/Hanks were essentially making a cinema-quality film that was ten hours long with both series, and the writers had to adapt the real stories into recognizable arcs that the audience could follow, and empathize with.
In watching these series, and reading the probably dozens of books I've read about the infantry in WWII, the main thing I always wondered is how these guys could have seen and done the things they did, and then returned home and live some kind of normal life. Especially based on what I know about the realities of the war against Japan. Sledge's story in the series really shines in this respect. He starts out as a sensitive kid, who experiences progressively worse and worse things, and is changed forever. I really enjoyed the last episode that showed him, Leckie, and Lena after the war.
I still love BoB, but in a way, The Pacific had a larger emotional impact on me, in the long term.