This movie depicts the problem with Germany today
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Ddey65 — 19 years ago(March 07, 2007 03:49 PM)
I would not regard RAF as being harmful. Rather than targetting workers and common people they went after the facilities of the illegitimate West German regime.
You really are backwards, Zvesda. It's the former
East
German regime that was illegitimate. It was created by the USSR for the sole purpose of expanding communist tyranny, which was why the US kept it's military bases there, not to mention staying in West Berlin to protect the people of Berlin from the communist threat.
In this sense, RAF could have been regarded as a national liberation group fighting against foreign occupation.
"National Liberation" My ass!! They were nothing more than a gang of thugs trying to force communism on Western Germany, and others in Western Europe, just like the North Korean Army, North Vietnamese Army, Viet Cong, Pathet Lao, Khmer Rouge, Japanese Red Army, Action Directe, the Sandinistas, and others scumbags like them.
Anyway, I have not heard of any political activity in Germany resembling RAF. The problem in Germany today is the revival of fascism with the National Democratic Party rather than anarchist terrorism.
The resurgence of fascism in Germany is partially due to East Germany's denial of German responsibility for the Holocaust. -
spittle8 — 17 years ago(August 28, 2008 04:45 PM)
"the immoral US occupation"
Haha. Concidering German conduct during the war, we had the right to annihilate the German people through strategic means rather than slogging it across the Rhine and being bled in the process. We were incredibly magnanimous and benevolent conquerors. We rebuilt Germany, and treated the people with dignity. We also stayed around to prevent Soviet encroachment, a move that put millions of Americans at risk.
I'm surprised by your concession of the dangers of multiculturalism. Your logic and candor on this is most impressive for someone who would defend the Red Army Faction. Cheers on that
Honestly, and ironically, what I think would serve Germany best at this point would be a benign Hitler. The second half of the post-war era hasn't been a Weimar, but Germany is socially sick. Germans need to be Germans again. In the absence of cultural stability and homogeneity and national confidence, the Germans are going to continue beep up and being weird. They just have to draw a balance. It's interesting to remember that Germany isn't a natural nation. It's a modern construct produced by Otto von Bismarck. Before that, there were numerous Germanic states and principalities.
"The spirit is willing, but the flesh is spongy and bruised." -
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oOgiandujaOo_and_Eddy_Merckx — 19 years ago(March 13, 2007 05:58 AM)
hmm, this movie isn't just about Germany, everywhere suffers from capitalism.
it isolates people
it commodifies them
and thats just in the West
thank god I don't live in the 3rd world
kidnapping is criminal but the state has legitimised worse crimes
where you live are people happy?
or do they watch game shows and reality tv and buy a new sofa when they feel down?
if i saw someone run a key down one of my father's cars (he has a 2 BMWs a landrover, a Harley Davidson and a Austin Healey) do you think i would turn them in?
let me tell you, I'd rather buy them a drink.
at 2 points in this movie - the pear brandy incident, and the 100,000 euro debt being revealed, if you didn't want to vomit you're part of the problem. -
liutenantsalt — 16 years ago(December 22, 2009 04:59 PM)
hmm, this movie isn't just about Germany, everywhere suffers from capitalism.
it isolates people
it commodifies them <<
Isolates and commodifies people? You mean in the sense that people thrown into Gulags by Socialist States are isolated and commodified?
Or did you mean isolated and Commodified more in the sense of, say, Mao Zedong displacing millions of people?
kidnapping is criminal but the state has legitimised worse crimes <<
And that Straw Man is what this whole thing is really about, isn't it?
It's okay for Socialists/Communists/Arachists to murder, censor and oppress just so long as you can still waggle your finger at the Free Market and say "They're worse!", right?
if i saw someone run a key down one of my father's cars (he has a 2 BMWs a landrover, a Harley Davidson and a Austin Healey) do you think i would turn them in?
let me tell you, I'd rather buy them a drink. <<
You sound like a pretty beep human being.
at 2 points in this movie - the pear brandy incident, and the 100,000 euro debt being revealed, if you didn't want to vomit you're part of the problem. <<
And if you could watch this movie and become ill at that, but completely stand behind the notion of a bunch of self-righteous nutjobs running about kidnapping people, vandalising their property and flagrantly invading their privacy in the name of a political philosophy centered aroudn the idea of collectivist oppression, then you're a certifiable Sociopath. -
oOgiandujaOo_and_Eddy_Merckx — 16 years ago(December 23, 2009 10:51 AM)
For someone who is ranting about straw men you certainly appear to have made a lot of them. What has the history of authoritarian communism got to do with whether capitalism isolates and commodifies people?
It's okay for Socialists/Communists/Arachists to murder, censor and oppress just so long as you can still waggle your finger at the Free Market and say "They're worse!", right?
No that would be another of your straw men.
You sound like a pretty beep human being.
Well I don't go around swearing at strangers on message boards, or continue an argument that went dormant two years ago as if it happened just now. You draw your own conclusions from that.
And if you could watch this movie and become ill at that, but completely stand behind the notion of a bunch of self-righteous nutjobs running about kidnapping people, vandalising their property and flagrantly invading their privacy in the name of a political philosophy centered aroudn the idea of collectivist oppression, then you're a certifiable Sociopath.
No I think whatever collectivist oppression is, it's a chip on your shoulder, I am not in favour of it, nor are the folks in the movie.
And if you could watch this movie and become ill at that, but completely stand behind the notion of a bunch of self-righteous nutjobs running about kidnapping people, vandalising their property and flagrantly invading their privacy in the name of a political philosophy centered aroudn the idea of collectivist oppression, then you're a certifiable Sociopath.
another straw man, and no I'm not a certifiable sociopath, but then again that's pretty obvious isn't it? Just you being hyperbolic.
"He was pink and white, and all the colours you'll never see." -
Jazmataz1980 — 16 years ago(April 09, 2009 02:39 AM)
The real trouble with Germans is that they are so eager to strive for homogenity that anyyone slightly leaning towards something like an elite pops up on their hate list. We never approved of anyone rising beyond the limits of mediocrity. Take German stars for example: Ute Lemper (broadway), Marlene Dietrich (chansons, Hollywood), Romy Schneider (became one of Frances world stars because we ditched her). None of these three has had a huge following in Germany and never received the praises they received in other countries.
Back to my point: Germans are quite envious of each other, so people who are too rich or powerful bring it on themselves when harm is done. Especially German intellectuals tend to be leftist and so Weingrtner has his actors say some really unreflected and downright dumb things about their victim (how he oppresses the poor for example). To me, the whole movie felt like it was written and directed by two 16 year olds. -
liutenantsalt — 16 years ago(December 22, 2009 04:49 PM)
Germany is now full of the "Red Army", "Red Faction" or whatever they are called. This is unfair.<<
And such people are allowed (in their own twisted minds) to assault, vandalize and even murder in the name of their backwards beliefs to protest against those selfsame acts when they're performed by the other end of the political specturm.
"Do as I Say, not as I Do" seems to be the only logic that either the Left or Right are capable of utilizing.
Sociopathic hypocrites is all they are.