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scottt-44876 — 10 years ago(October 11, 2015 05:53 PM)
Albert, You have no clue what you are talking about. The movie had a lot of inaccurate details. Chris did not poison himself. He was injured and that kept him from being able to walk out. Someday you could trip and break your next. People die every day from trips and falls at home. Chris like many other people loved nature and he was very experienced and knew what he was doing. I wish people would stop all the hate speech. Especially since they talk with complete ignorance. Taking a Hollywood movie as 100% fact is a bad idea. Hating on a real person with faulty information is wrong.
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ljshorts — 10 years ago(October 12, 2015 08:08 PM)
You're right the movie wasn't 100% accurate. I personally enjoyed Penn's artistic additions to the film but that's just me. You're also right about the hate speech being a result of ignorance. That sums it up nicely in a simple way.
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arkayenether — 10 years ago(January 27, 2016 02:32 PM)
Wow this is the third time today I've run into you. I've come to the conclusion (especially after reading this post) that you're one of those types that think they are far deeper and considerably more intelligent than they actually are.
By the way, "Find something worth dying for" is quite possibly the single stupidest sounding attempt at being inspiring I've ever seen, heard, or read. Get laid -
AtheistRevolution — 10 years ago(January 28, 2016 08:38 AM)
Is that why he wrote an SOS sign begging for help?Why would the moron do if he didn't find a old bus? He didn't even have the most basic survival skills. He should have at least joined boy scouts as a kid. If you just drop an animal that was raised in captivity in the wild,they will die. If all other animals need training on how to survive in the wild then humans need that also. If he really wanted to do this he could have traveled with a survivalist or take a few basic survival classes. This idiot starved in Alaska for beep
He probably would have died camping in his backyard. I've been to Amazon,Siberia,etc. This kid would never survive in any of these places.In winter when there is no food you can actually survive on bark,leaves and dig up insects buried in the ground.You can grind up bark,mix it with water and make a gruel which would have prevented starvation.Of course there were plenty of things he could have ate before even doing that.But he was too stupid to even know that.He didn't even know how to prepare a animal he killed. Wasted meat. He could have survived the entire winter on that moose.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful. -
palisade-1 — 10 years ago(January 28, 2016 09:36 AM)
Why would the moron do if he didn't find a old bus? He didn't even have the most basic survival skills. He should have at least joined boy scouts as a kid.
If he had not found the bus, he would probably have survived - because he would have kept moving, having only a tent and sleeping bag, and no comfortable shelter. The bus was too easy and cozy, so he hunkered down in it much longer than he should have done.
Ironically, he did have lots of solo camping experience and belonged to a Boy Scout type group (forget the name but would recognize it) for a number of years. He did solo camping in the Appalachians, in the desert in the southwest, in various parts of the USA, but not in Alaska or a subarctic region with similar challenges. He had no plans to spend the winter, and had he kept moving camp he would likely have been able to leave when he wished to do so (early July). His "magic bus" was unfortunately "bad" magic as it seduced him into staying too long.
The movie does present him as a naive fool, but in real life he had much more wilderness experience than what is shown. -
ljshorts — 10 years ago(January 28, 2016 10:47 PM)
It should have been blatantly clear from the movie, but Chris' whole philosophy was to throw himself into the real world, and learn all of the survival skills on his own. Ever heard of the expression "Trial by fire"?
He wrote an SOS sign, because he backed himself into a corner that he couldn't get out of, and needed help And no he's not an idiot for making
one
mistake, nobody is. -
JayHysterio — 10 years ago(January 28, 2016 11:05 AM)
He may not have been stupid, but I think he was misguided. Self realization doesn't have to come from taking on dangerous quests, I think it comes from gradually experiencing life and learning from it. There are no quick, simple solutions. I liken him to Timothy Treadwell, who sought to excommunicate himself from people by living with grizzly bears, only to be eaten by one.
The issue I have with people like McCandless and Treadwell is they have avoided responsibility of life by "checking out" and thus take no responsibility and don't think about how their actions affect others. In McCandless' case, he left his family to agonize over his demise, in Treadwell's case it was even worse, his girlfriend was killed with him and the rescue team was put in harm's way by the same bear that killed him.
You may consider him noble, but his actions were irresponsible. This wasn't a hike like Cheryl Strayed took, where she had planned stops to resupply, yet she apparently came to some kind of self realization without killing herself or others. Even in death, CM has inadvertently caused the deaths of others who trekked to the area as a pilgrimage and died in accidents. (Documented on this site).
Unnecessary, imo. -
ljshorts — 10 years ago(January 28, 2016 11:01 PM)
He was misguided, troubled and confused. Because he realized he was a fake person living a fake life like everyone else in the West. He needed to find himself.
Self realization can and does come from taking on dangerous quests, or being in dire circumstances. It has been a common practice by humans all over the world for millennia.
Ie.) vision quests.
Most advanced ancient tribes not only dealt with survival scenario's on a daily basis, but also had coming of age rituals for all of the young men.
The issue I have with people like McCandless and Treadwell is they have avoided responsibility of life by "checking out" and thus take no responsibility and don't think about how their actions affect others.
He didn't have any responsibilities that's the thing. He left everything behind to live a new life. His family was sad, but it's not Chris' job to make them happy. It's his job to life his own life. They weren't even good parents, at least from how the film portrays them. -
JayHysterio — 10 years ago(January 29, 2016 05:21 AM)
I would say self realization for the majority of people does not come from taking on dangerous quests. If it did, we'd see many, many more instances of things like this, enough so commonplace that it would not even be worth making a movie about it.
People may not want to believe it, but most don't live these romantic, movie-of-the-week lives, it's pretty much a grind for everyone without the drama. You don't like your jobquit and find another, don't like your spouseget a divorce, don't like your family situationmove out. People do it all the time without endangering themselves or others.
You left out the rest of my post regarding responsibility, failing to include my examples of how CM and TT's actions affected others; that omission changes what my point is.
You always have responsibility towards others; it may be indirect, but it's whether you choose to acknowledge it or ignore it. I find it interesting that in spite of McCandless' quest, in the end he discovered that he did need people, as his note for help shows. I wonder in his final moments, if his last thoughts were along the lines of maybe his former life wasn't so bad after all.
I could be mean spirited and call him a coward, but that's too simplified, I myself sometimes find myself hating the human race, and I've often thought of getting away; however, there's a difference between distancing and isolation. I tend towards the former and in either case I would carefully examine my decision not only from my point.
Nothing is worth dying to you? Chris knew he could die, it didn't stop him from doing what was important.
He wasn't stupid or selfish, he was courageous and a martyr.
If you can't relate to him or his story then I understand, but if you can and you still think he was stupid, you're limiting your potential. Think beyond yourselves, find something worth dying for.
He was misguided, troubled and confused.
I see you've become less enthralled with him since your original post to your most recent, but I agree with the second one. -
ljshorts — 10 years ago(January 29, 2016 11:35 PM)
Well no self-realization doesn't come from dire situations anymore, because people have become disillusioned, brainwashed slaves. They don't care about finding themselves anymore, in fact they don't even care to think at all. But that was the way life used to be, you know, when it was functional and had meaning. People are lost now, and Chris was re-sparking an old technique that has worked for people in the past when they had their eyes open.
I'm struggling to see how he had an indirect responsibility important enough to hold him back from doing what he wanted. People can't live there lives constantly mulling over every insignificant problem that somebody else has with them or their ambitions.
In the end he had a revelation about how life is better shared with others, yes. That didn't deter from his experience though. It's not like he regretted his whole journey because of that. Sharing his life with others just would have been the cherry on top.
It looks as if I'm contradicting myself with those two quotes, but what I'm trying to say is that he lived a misguided, troubled and confused life
before
his journey, when he lived with a dysfunctional family in a horrible society. Then, he discovered himself and his passion for life along his quest for happiness. That's the arc of the movie, the whole point. That's the way enlightenment works, you have to hit the bottom before you can know where the top is. -
infracaninophile — 10 years ago(January 30, 2016 10:45 AM)
In the end he had a revelation about how life is better shared with others, yes.
In the film this is true. But in real life, there is no evidence Chris had any such "awakening." The much-quoted line about shared happiness is not Chris's own, it is a quotation from Pasternak's novel,
Doctor Zhivago.
Although Chris had a dysfunctional family life, he did not seem to be hampered by it; he said in his farewell note (in real life), "I have had a happy life and thank the Lord."
He had a passion for life and adventure from an early age. He did not, in real life, suddenly "discover" these things. The movie is "based on a true story," but it is not a true story, it is a work of art. -
ljshorts — 10 years ago(January 30, 2016 10:12 PM)
Right, ok. Thanks for clearing that up. In the context of the movie the quote makes sense, I can see why they would want to add that. But it also makes sense that he was happy with his adventure through and through without the revelation and without any regret (from what we know about him).
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infracaninophile — 10 years ago(January 31, 2016 10:29 AM)
But it also makes sense that he was happy with his adventure through and through without the revelation and without any regret (from what we know about him).
Yes, he seems to have had a positive outlook and an adventurous spirit for some years at least, and the idea that he was "rejecting society" is also a movie invention. He says in various contexts that he wants to make a break with the past and experience new things, certainly as a form of spiritual quest but not so much for "enlightenment."
Here's part of what he said in a letter to Ron Franz (Russell Fritz in real life):
So many people live within unhappy circumstances and yet will not take the initiative to change their situation because they are conditioned to a life of security, conformity, and conservatism, all of which may appear to give one piece of mind, but in reality nothing is more damaging to the adventurous spirit within a man than a secure future. The very basic core of a mans living spirit is his passion for adventure. The joy of life comes from our encounters with new experiences, and hence there is no greater joy than to have an endlessly changing horizon, for each day to have a new and different sun.
You are wrong if you think Joy emanates only or principally from human relationships. God has placed it all around us. It is in everything and anything we might experience. We just have to have the courage to turn against our habitual lifestyle and engage in unconventional living.
He did seem to think his "Alaskan adventure" and nomadic lifestyle was a phase of life he was in, to discover the world, develop his own sense of identity and autonomy, and experience life while he had the freedom to do so. He had told Wayne he wanted to marry someday, so he had an inchoate idea of a more conventional life down the road, though probably very different from the one in which he grew up. He had gone on a lot of solitary travel and wilderness camping ever since he got his drivers' license, and had always been a dutiful son. I think he needed to make a clean break (as he did) in order to break that mold. Contrary to the impression in the film, Chris did not "hate" his parents; he and his father had been fairly close until Chris learned about his father's double life and duplicity( this happened in Chris's late teens). He seemed unable to confront them and needed to "just do it."
Edited to fix typing errors. -
ljshorts — 10 years ago(January 31, 2016 11:13 PM)
Hmm, interesting. Especially the snippet on God and Joy. Although technically what he is describing in the letter does constitute him "rejecting society".
"-because they are conditioned to a life of security, conformity, and conservatism, all of which may appear to give one piece of mind, but in reality nothing is more damaging to the adventurous spirit within a man than a secure future."
I mean I'd like to think that was one of the main motivators in his adventure. -
JayHysterio — 10 years ago(February 01, 2016 04:50 AM)
You can debate his motivation all you want, doesn't change the fact that he went into it ill-prepared and let's just say "How'd that work out for you?"
I don't consider him any kind of hero or renaissance man; more of a cautionary tale on taking on such a trip without knowing what you're getting into. -
Zombie55 — 9 years ago(December 23, 2016 11:29 AM)
If we can ACCURATELY and DEFINITELY, well, DEFINE stupidity and use it as a reason for something that caused his death, then in what way was he stupid and how did it contribute to his death?
The greatest trick the Devil has ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist!