Miyazaki's themes are nice because he doesn't throw it in your face nor does he say "Your evil because your doing this,
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Ponyo
arorashadow_2003 — 16 years ago(September 13, 2009 08:02 PM)
Miyazaki's themes are nice because he doesn't throw it in your face nor does he say "Your evil because your doing this, now go fix this or you'll still be evil."
Anime is Forever -
johnkstone1234 — 16 years ago(October 05, 2009 09:56 PM)
I completely agree: yes, Miyazaki can easily get preachy, ham-fisted and dreadfully heavy handed in his desire to promote green issues and love for the planet. I have absolutely no objection to his treating this theme in any or all his films, but it is the tone (obviousness) and surprising lack of imagination with which he occasionally preaches that is off-putting. I felt it when Ponyo's father mouthed a few really blatant lines about dirty humans and their despoiling of the planet/ocean Further (as the author of this post suggests), Miyazaki makes environmental issues not just a small part of some films, but the identical and central theme to many, thereby repeating himself (you know, ad nauseum).
Of all the green films, Totoro remains far and away the finest work of art because it seamlessly integrates environmental themes into many others (both related and otherwise) including the power of young children to "see" what adults can (no longer) see in their surroundings; the fear of being left alone; the anxiety of having a parent who is very ill. It is just a gorgeous film on so many levels (not to mention that it taps into the Japanese mythology of animism, as does Mononoke in a strong way). I wonder whether this master of stories worries that younger audiences will not "get" the message if it's not broadcast more obviously. Who knows, perhaps he's right! I just wish the marvelous quirkiness, artfulness, and subtlety of his magic could be equalled by scripts and stories that were as ingenious in their complexity and richness. (NB: having fantastical creatures and intricate plots with numerous twists does not equal complexity, in my book.)
Oh and what was up with the rip-off of Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries in the scene when Ponyo rides the waves?! That was embarrassing why not just use the Wagner outright (it was so insanely close a rip-off). Though all in all, love Joe Hisaichi's scores Sorry veered off topic there. -
Matt345 — 15 years ago(May 19, 2010 10:58 PM)
Personally I think Totoro may be a wonderful film, but his other movies can be watched far more often, so there must be something to them. I also would argue against Totoro being more subtle and complex than the other movies, as most of its themes blend very naturally together so that you almost cannot tell them apart. And I think with a different eye it's possible to discern many layers in any of his movies. That is to say, it's largely subjective, unless you're actively looking for it or have some fuller understanding of his style.
I'm also tired of his environmental theme as I think a storyteller should be able to portray more sides of the world and life. As I came to understand him as quite the rigorous idealist (read the Nausica-manga), I'll just come to terms with it.
But compared to the Nausica-manga, which was completed at the beginning of 1994, I would actually say that his movies since then show a slight trend of repression of his central themes of war and environment (Mononoke was already more liberal and less allegorical than the Nausica-manga, as hard it may be to believe).
I'm a big fan of his romantic or poetic side, not necessarily of such scenes which are obviously intended to be "wonderful", but of those which have an inexplicable charm to them. He's quite good at that (perhaps the best) and this is why I watch his movies. -
dieBartdie — 16 years ago(October 08, 2009 05:53 PM)
You know, threads like this are the reason the world hates the USA:
"YO MAN! I'm really sick of those whiny anti-war movies! ROCK ON HARD! Some turban-wearing terrorists need to get their ass kicked sometimes, dude! FREEEEDDOM! lol rofl!!!!!"
"God damn liberals with their environmental nazi-propaganda! I NEED MY CAR! WTF? lol 50 gallons per mile so what???? DONT TELL ME NATURE DIES I DON'T CARE IT'S GODS WILL! Oh, look at those beautiful nature shots in Miyazaki movies breathtaking. LOL WHY DIDN'T HE THROW THE PLASTIC BOTTLE ON THE SIDEWALK AND PUT IT IN THE TRASH CAN INSTEAD? PUSSY!"
Uhm, yea, I'm sure you're not like that nor do Americans seem to care about how they come across but that's the picture the rest of the world has of Americans. Just saying.
Sarcasm is the grammar of the internet.
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Holkospinner — 16 years ago(November 15, 2009 03:06 AM)
I just love how Americans get tired of getting a bad conscience by themes like that. Oh, and his movies are deeply rooted in Shintoism which is a nature religion so naturally it is one of his biggest concerns and the planet would surly be in a better condition of people would actually think about this topic instead of whining about being suggested what they are doing wrong.
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TrAkILLAuDiO — 16 years ago(December 16, 2009 04:44 PM)
eh, that's miyazaki's point. it's not all about the environment(spirited away, for instance, was about knowing who you are, and friendship, and learning to grow upat least that's what i got out of it, if you got something different that's fine), but that's what he cares for and wants to portray. he also cares a lot about culture issues. like in mononoke, i liked the movie, and thought it had a very good theme and point, but the entire time i was watching it, it was like "o no, that damned westernization has ruined everything."
Sucker Punch
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blondiebear_17 — 16 years ago(December 16, 2009 10:14 PM)
I'm not sure why many of the commentors seemed to take so much offense to my topic. I'm not anti Miyazaki or anti green. I mean I love movies like My neighbor Totoro it's just that if your gonna use movies to promote good habits then at least make it a good movie. Ponyo isn't even a fraction of what Miyazaki is capable of.
Your no bunny till some bunny loves you -
Liquidize105 — 16 years ago(December 20, 2009 08:18 PM)
The imagery is not suppose to be strictly about environmentalism though he does make a point about it in a few movies. Somebody already mentioned it above, it's a very old Japanese religion called Shinto, centered on spirituality and animism (go look it up). It's still the most practiced religion in Japan I think.
And Ponyo's fine. It's hand-made and has so much details that it's easily lovable. Besides, what more do you want from an modern adaptation of the mermaid story??!
OH THE HUGE MANATEE!!! -
ibbi — 16 years ago(February 12, 2010 08:39 AM)
No, he does it well, he's been doing it long before it was 'cool', and he handles the subject in new and fascinating arenas populated by fabulous characters. Lots of directors have recurring themes in their work, his is just more pronounced than the rest. And all those movies were more than just environmentalist.
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minormillikin — 16 years ago(February 25, 2010 01:17 PM)
You have to consider the perspective of a Japanese environmentalist versus an American one.
In Japan, they pave over everything. There's a paved path to the top of Mt. Fuji, for example. There are places where they pave rivers (to prevent further erosion).
A huge proportion of Japanese people live in Tokyo.
Most Americans don't live in places that are as "un-natural" as Tokyo, Japan. I live on the outskirts of a large city in California and there are trees, and brush everywhere.
From the perspective of a Japanese city-dweller, the environment would appear to be a very serious problem. It would obviously seem less important to someone living in the U.S., a country that actually has more trees now than it did when the pilgrims arrived.
sort of related: It isn't a coincidence that more people living in New York City would call themselves "environmentalists" that people who live in Albany, NY. From a New York City inhabitants perspective, the "environment" would obviously appear to be in a lot of danger. -
Lord-Bigglesworth — 16 years ago(March 02, 2010 09:34 AM)
Yes and no. I haven't yet seen Ponyo so I can't really comment on that one but it didn't bother me in Spirited Away since that wasn't what the film was really
about
but it did get just a little grating in Nausiscaa and Mononoke, although that could be due more to annoying screaming girls' voices than the film pushing the themes.
You'd feel cocky too if you were full of myself. -
rdufault — 16 years ago(March 22, 2010 12:29 PM)
As long as he's the best filmmaker in the world, Miyazaki is allowed to make whatever films he wants. Look at it from his point of view: Japan is one of the most densely populated countries in the world, with concrete taking over everything that's not completely impassable mountain. The best example of this in Miyazaki's films is Pom Poko, where Japanese raccoons fight to preserve their natural habitat - and lose.
But nature is not the only recurring theme in Miyazaki's films he also tackles war - and its effects on nature, like in Nausicaa, where an ancient war decimated the planet (Castle in the Sky could even be a sequel to Nausicaa, hundreds or thousands of years later). He also tackles war's effect on people, like in Princess Mononoke or Howl's Moving Castle - and of course Japan suffered big time after WW2. Grave of the Firefiles is not a Miyazaki film proper, but it's a Studio Ghiblu production, and tackles war's effect on kids. -
DaDevster — 15 years ago(April 19, 2010 04:55 PM)
As opposed to most environmentalism these days, which are products despreately doing anything trying to seem "green" and "good for the planet", Miyazaki's films are truly a work of art. I don't have as much of a problem with it in his films because the effort put into these films is so tremendous I can accept the enrivonmentalist message and enjoy the film. With commercials and poorly made films it's much more noticeable and grating, but with Miyazaki's films I'm so immersed in the movie that the environmentalist overtones seem perfectly natural. In my opinion, at least.
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StephEff — 15 years ago(April 23, 2010 09:50 PM)
Not at all. I don't see how someone can get "tired" of being reminded of what we're doing to the planet Not to mention, I don't find that Miyazaki is only showing environmentalist themes, it's nature in general. He shows the good and the bad of nature - in Ponyo we see how disgusting we've made the ocean, but we also see how cruel the ocean can be; in Princess Mononoke, we see how humans kill the forest spirit, but we also see the forest spirit take life away as well. He never pretends that if we "save the earth", everything will be sunshine and roses, but he does remind us that we won't be able to see the good OR bad of nature if we don't have nature to begin with.
Steph
