why aren't Miyazaki films successful in the west?
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RavenGoddess — 16 years ago(March 03, 2010 07:21 AM)
Here I sware it was in the Cinama for 2 weeks, lucky I went to see it when it first premiered in the summer, Disney should be ashamed, and get off those retarded pills they could have made a lot more money since they didn't have to pay for animation costs they just had to translate and dub it, I really dont know what their issues are.
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Jersey_Mike — 16 years ago(March 07, 2010 03:32 PM)
What are you talking about? The budget for this film is 34 million dollars and grossed nearly 200 million, how is that not successful? Also, Americans (particularly teens and young adults) love anime. I believe you have a very small-minded view of the United States.
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Moogle80 — 14 years ago(May 06, 2011 02:50 PM)
Agree with Daannny. I do find it surprising, because I thought anime or at least Studio Ghibli would get a boost from winning the Oscar for Spirited Away. I remember Howl being promoted ("from the people that brought you the Oscar-winning Spirited Away!"), but I just happened to find out about Ponyo when I walked past a little arthouse cinema, had never heard of it before. Funny thing though, when I was at Japan in Epcot last year, they had this HUGE Ghibli stand and all kinds of Ponyo merchandise
And @jimb14red: I think the reason America was mentioned and not one of '100's of other countries' is because America not only is one of the biggest players when it comes to moviemaking, but it is also one of the biggest movie-going audiences in the world. Nobody cares what a movie makes in, let's say, Egypt or Italy because those numbers don't really matter. They don't have a population of 300 million people. -
Daannny — 16 years ago(March 08, 2010 04:37 PM)
People is used to western excesses and humor: pop-culture jokes and innuendos.
Just compare a movie like The Little Mermaid to Ponyo (which is inspired by the Little Mermaid story)
In the Little Mermaid when Ariel have to eat human food for the first time we're shown a series of jokes: the crab and the cook fighting, the fork used as a comb.
In Ponyo the first time Ponyo eats honey we're shown her genuine expression of wonder and joy and everything is silent.
In Little Mermaid when Ariel got her legs what we're shown is a series of jokes from the seagul not noticing the legs to her weird dress.
In Ponyo when Ponyo got her legs we're shown one of the best animated sequences about "freedom". The way she runs on the fish-waves and her expression in her face.
Miyazaki culture is more about poetry, thoughts, rituals, meditation.
Western culture is more about jokes, pop-culture references, acting cool.
Miyazaki pace is slow, dialogues are few, moments of silence many.
In Western movies and animation the pace is always frenetic, the characters are always hyperactive, there's a fast dialogue in every scene.
In Miyazaki movies characters are real, they act in the same way people act in the real world; with their flaws, their doubts, their silences.
In Western movies and animation characters are always stereotypical, the personalities are black and white and excessive. -
rdufault — 16 years ago(March 22, 2010 01:14 PM)
I think North Americans love Miyazaki films but in the total absence of marketing and release, they can't succeed on the big screen, because it's impossible to see them until they come out on DVD.
The last Miyazaki film that was actually released in theaters in my home town of Ottawa, Canada, I think was Mononoke. When films like Transformers get commercials on every network at all hours of the day for months before the film is released, and end up being shown on tens of thousands of screens across the continent, they are for sure going to be seen by more people. Maybe Transformers is a bad comparison - let's compare it to one of the Pixar films, like Wall-E. John Lasseter is a huge fan of Miyazaki, and Disney owns the distribution rights for all Ghibli films in North America, and yet you still don't see them in theaters.
I love showing these films to my kids' friends and parents, because they are always amazed at how good they are! -
scarlettbees — 16 years ago(March 27, 2010 07:01 AM)
I just love how people use these threads as an excuse to insult the United States. That's the only purpose it serves, which is very petty and small.
The truth is, Miyazaki films are not heavily marketed in the U.S. because it is widely BELIEVED that we want something more "commercial," so advertising dollars are spent accordingly. We Americans, believe it or not, are not stupid. We're just treated as such. Remember, the movie industry is a BUSINESS out to make money, and in Hollywood, it's a cowardly business that gives no credit to movie goers. Apparently, they felt their best bet to make the most money was to hype the hell out of Princess and the Frog instead of Ponyo. I haven't seen the former, so I don't know which was better.
I also have to say that, sorry, but Ponyo was not THAT great of a movie. It was gorgeous and amazingly creative, to be sure, but story-wise it was nothing compared to Spirited Away or Princess Mononoke. -
maria_maria — 15 years ago(April 10, 2010 08:40 AM)
Agreed, this was in theaters for a few weeks here in Texas, but I just didn't have anyone to go to the movies with last summer. So I just got around to seeing it now, on DVD. I did see Howl's Moving Castle on the big screen though IIRC.
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heishiro — 15 years ago(November 10, 2010 11:22 AM)
Most hand drawn animation is at least technically influenced by Disney but Miyzaki himself has stated hating Disney movies. He has stated liking French King and the Mockingbird and Russian Snow Queen, though.
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weird_beard — 15 years ago(January 02, 2011 05:01 PM)
I saw ONE commercial for Ponyo, and I was like, "If I didn't know how great this movie is going to be, I'd think it looked terrible." Commercials for Western animation always highlight the broadest, most-lowbrow jokes as their hooks, and Miyazaki doesn't have enough for that aproach. The trailers they show in theaters and on other DVDs are always much more story orientated (the first one for Wall-E looked very serious, especially since they mentioned that it was going to be the last of the original batch that they brainstormed together back when). Hell, John Lasseter coming on at the beginning of Castle in the Sky telling us what a great movie we were going to watch was better than most of their paid advertisement, even though he was preaching to the choir.
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Laserwolf65 — 14 years ago(February 23, 2012 01:36 PM)
The following comments refer to feature-length films only!
Oy vey. Ok Daannny, you can like what you like. I won't begrudge you that, but do you think you could answer without a sense of holier-than-thou haughtiness?
Anyway, what you call "meditation, moments of silence, and slow pacing" I call "lack of plot, lack of tension, and lack of conflict."
In western culture, the magic tends to make much more sense. Ariel goes to a witch and signs a contract which binds her to the spell. Magic is based on rules. In Miyazaki films (nearly of them in fact) things just happen and no one ever reacts to them like they're out of the ordinary. I think this has a lot to do with his films not doing well in the west. We like exposition and explanation. We like it when people react to the fantastic. Miyazaki does not do this.
Western audiences also value different things when it comes to animation. Miyazaki is a master at placing characters in elaborate backgrounds. He also is a master special effects animator. He completely falls short as a character animator, though. Despite a few impressive moments here and there, his character animation is filled with stunted movement, overused key frames, and lip flap (a personal pet peeve of mine that I never have been able to overlook). His characters designs also tend to have this blobby nondescript quality to them. Many times I wonder if he spends more than five minutes designing them.
Now, western animation does not put nearly as much emphasis on backgrounds. I don't think that I've ever seen a western film with a background as detailed as Howl's dressing room, for instance. We are also are not as good at special effects animation. The perfect example of this is the waves from Ponyo. We do, however, destroy Miyazaki (and Japan in general) when it comes to character animation. Take a look at this, for instance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DB7IqNgufk0. Look how the mouth moves with the dialogue; look at how much movement there is; look at the breadth of expression; look at the fluidity of the movement. Now look at Fujimoto from Ponyo and you'll see lip flap and a low frame rate that destroys the fluidity of the movement. There really is no comparison.
It all comes down to what you value. Most western audiences prefer character animation and design over backgrounds. Is that right? Well, there is no "right" or "wrong" here, just personal preference.
Western audiences just have a different set of values. It's not just about pop-culture references and jokes. After all, plenty of successful and popular anime boils down to just that, and movies like Wall-e make a lot of money here in the west. Really it has more to do with rule-bound fantasy, character design, character animation, a sense of conflict and consequences, and traditional story structure. If you don't place a high value on these things, then Miyazaki's backgrounds, quiet moments, and take-it-at-face-value fantasy that has "poetic" undertones will appeal more to you. It's all about CULTURE NOT QUALITY!
Well, I feel like I've ranted enough. I apologize if I've offended anyone; that was not my intention. I just feel like people who prefer western animation are looked down on in internet forums, and I felt like I had to say my piece. I don't really like the majority of Miyazaki's films, but I know why other people do. I don't think any less of someone for preferring his films. All I ask in return is that you don't look down on someone else for preferring western animation, because they may have very legitimate reasons for having that preference. I hope this has been useful food for thought.
If you paid to see Transformers 3 in the theater, shame on you. -
balehead74 — 16 years ago(March 28, 2010 11:25 PM)
In Sweden it never reached the white screens at all, just like many other Miyazaki films. I guess the cinema people are afraid to give non-Hollywood or native productions a chance. And considering how few people are willing to spend loads of money watching a film at a theatre instead of buying the DVD, maybe it's a wise decision by them - I don't know.
But there is light in the tunnel! In bookstores and video stores, they nowadays etnd to have large and sell sorted Miyazaki racks, that are better displayed than for example Disney's. And we who have discovered Miyazaki try to "spread the word" by giving Miyazaki DVD:s to our friends children for their birthdays and so on. So there is kind of an underground movement.