why aren't Miyazaki films successful in the west?
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scarlettbees — 16 years ago(March 27, 2010 07:01 AM)
I just love how people use these threads as an excuse to insult the United States. That's the only purpose it serves, which is very petty and small.
The truth is, Miyazaki films are not heavily marketed in the U.S. because it is widely BELIEVED that we want something more "commercial," so advertising dollars are spent accordingly. We Americans, believe it or not, are not stupid. We're just treated as such. Remember, the movie industry is a BUSINESS out to make money, and in Hollywood, it's a cowardly business that gives no credit to movie goers. Apparently, they felt their best bet to make the most money was to hype the hell out of Princess and the Frog instead of Ponyo. I haven't seen the former, so I don't know which was better.
I also have to say that, sorry, but Ponyo was not THAT great of a movie. It was gorgeous and amazingly creative, to be sure, but story-wise it was nothing compared to Spirited Away or Princess Mononoke. -
maria_maria — 15 years ago(April 10, 2010 08:40 AM)
Agreed, this was in theaters for a few weeks here in Texas, but I just didn't have anyone to go to the movies with last summer. So I just got around to seeing it now, on DVD. I did see Howl's Moving Castle on the big screen though IIRC.
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heishiro — 15 years ago(November 10, 2010 11:22 AM)
Most hand drawn animation is at least technically influenced by Disney but Miyzaki himself has stated hating Disney movies. He has stated liking French King and the Mockingbird and Russian Snow Queen, though.
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weird_beard — 15 years ago(January 02, 2011 05:01 PM)
I saw ONE commercial for Ponyo, and I was like, "If I didn't know how great this movie is going to be, I'd think it looked terrible." Commercials for Western animation always highlight the broadest, most-lowbrow jokes as their hooks, and Miyazaki doesn't have enough for that aproach. The trailers they show in theaters and on other DVDs are always much more story orientated (the first one for Wall-E looked very serious, especially since they mentioned that it was going to be the last of the original batch that they brainstormed together back when). Hell, John Lasseter coming on at the beginning of Castle in the Sky telling us what a great movie we were going to watch was better than most of their paid advertisement, even though he was preaching to the choir.
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Laserwolf65 — 14 years ago(February 23, 2012 01:36 PM)
The following comments refer to feature-length films only!
Oy vey. Ok Daannny, you can like what you like. I won't begrudge you that, but do you think you could answer without a sense of holier-than-thou haughtiness?
Anyway, what you call "meditation, moments of silence, and slow pacing" I call "lack of plot, lack of tension, and lack of conflict."
In western culture, the magic tends to make much more sense. Ariel goes to a witch and signs a contract which binds her to the spell. Magic is based on rules. In Miyazaki films (nearly of them in fact) things just happen and no one ever reacts to them like they're out of the ordinary. I think this has a lot to do with his films not doing well in the west. We like exposition and explanation. We like it when people react to the fantastic. Miyazaki does not do this.
Western audiences also value different things when it comes to animation. Miyazaki is a master at placing characters in elaborate backgrounds. He also is a master special effects animator. He completely falls short as a character animator, though. Despite a few impressive moments here and there, his character animation is filled with stunted movement, overused key frames, and lip flap (a personal pet peeve of mine that I never have been able to overlook). His characters designs also tend to have this blobby nondescript quality to them. Many times I wonder if he spends more than five minutes designing them.
Now, western animation does not put nearly as much emphasis on backgrounds. I don't think that I've ever seen a western film with a background as detailed as Howl's dressing room, for instance. We are also are not as good at special effects animation. The perfect example of this is the waves from Ponyo. We do, however, destroy Miyazaki (and Japan in general) when it comes to character animation. Take a look at this, for instance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DB7IqNgufk0. Look how the mouth moves with the dialogue; look at how much movement there is; look at the breadth of expression; look at the fluidity of the movement. Now look at Fujimoto from Ponyo and you'll see lip flap and a low frame rate that destroys the fluidity of the movement. There really is no comparison.
It all comes down to what you value. Most western audiences prefer character animation and design over backgrounds. Is that right? Well, there is no "right" or "wrong" here, just personal preference.
Western audiences just have a different set of values. It's not just about pop-culture references and jokes. After all, plenty of successful and popular anime boils down to just that, and movies like Wall-e make a lot of money here in the west. Really it has more to do with rule-bound fantasy, character design, character animation, a sense of conflict and consequences, and traditional story structure. If you don't place a high value on these things, then Miyazaki's backgrounds, quiet moments, and take-it-at-face-value fantasy that has "poetic" undertones will appeal more to you. It's all about CULTURE NOT QUALITY!
Well, I feel like I've ranted enough. I apologize if I've offended anyone; that was not my intention. I just feel like people who prefer western animation are looked down on in internet forums, and I felt like I had to say my piece. I don't really like the majority of Miyazaki's films, but I know why other people do. I don't think any less of someone for preferring his films. All I ask in return is that you don't look down on someone else for preferring western animation, because they may have very legitimate reasons for having that preference. I hope this has been useful food for thought.
If you paid to see Transformers 3 in the theater, shame on you. -
balehead74 — 16 years ago(March 28, 2010 11:25 PM)
In Sweden it never reached the white screens at all, just like many other Miyazaki films. I guess the cinema people are afraid to give non-Hollywood or native productions a chance. And considering how few people are willing to spend loads of money watching a film at a theatre instead of buying the DVD, maybe it's a wise decision by them - I don't know.
But there is light in the tunnel! In bookstores and video stores, they nowadays etnd to have large and sell sorted Miyazaki racks, that are better displayed than for example Disney's. And we who have discovered Miyazaki try to "spread the word" by giving Miyazaki DVD:s to our friends children for their birthdays and so on. So there is kind of an underground movement. -
shadowhawk1j — 15 years ago(April 07, 2010 03:21 PM)
I think because ( and its unfortunate) most of the world regards cartoons as for "children" only, which is the biggest crock of crap around. And since most adults feel that way, they wont spend the time or money on what is honestely a much better experiance than most of the movies that come out.
I could be completely wrong, but I have a feeling that it is closer to the mark than anyone wants to admit.
Decepticle n: 1. The "testicles" added to the movie robots in Michael Bay's T2: RoTF. -
yanosakamoto — 15 years ago(November 01, 2010 02:15 AM)
Yes yes exactly ! In Japan people feel that animes are for evryone, even if Ponyo is actually really directed at children . But Generally speaking , animes are also for adults and I know that in some countries people still believe that animes are just for children .
I agree with the marketing part too . In Japan Miyazaki's movies are heavily advertised and people know them by heart so it is not a problem, each movie is a success . Ghibli Studios should do the same thing evrywhere but I think it is quite impassible .
Can't sleep at night -
FollicleMan — 15 years ago(November 27, 2010 09:20 AM)
It's funny, because until maybe the 50s or 60s, it was the same in America. Adults went to see Snow White and Fantasia even if they didn't have kids, because it was a spectacle, like a Cecil B. DeMille movie. But somewhere along the line, it was decided that cartoons are for kids and ONLY live action is for grown ups. Of course, now that every cartoon is getting remade as a hideous photoreal CGI/live-action abomination, there's barely a place for traditional animation at all. Lets hope Lasseter keeps championing the cause at Disney, or we're doomed to sink into the uncanny valley forever.
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yanosakamoto — 15 years ago(December 10, 2010 01:59 AM)
In Japan it is a little bit diffrent, because some animes are really what we call "adult movies" . Animes are not meant to be seen by everybody but by a specific part of the population most of the time . Creators and studios don't aim at the whole audience most of the time , it is not the point .
Can't sleep at night -
delopowitz — 13 years ago(July 13, 2012 10:24 PM)
Hey, I can't speak for the rest of the country we live in California and aren't even Japanese by descent and we have several Ghibli dvds and have seen the last two in theaters. I love a good Pixar but I'd sooner pop in a Ghibli, and so would the kids. We've seen My Neighbor Totoro eleventy-billion times. I liked The Secret World of Arrietty better than Brave. And our friends like them too. So I dunno. I have come across people who aren't familiar with Studio Ghibli films, but I've also met people who weren't sure who The Marx Brothers were. Good things don't always get around.
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shred-com — 13 years ago(December 22, 2012 01:03 PM)
Films like these are not promoted or usually get a wide enough release in the US to gain a huge audience. And yet they still do pretty damn well. And anime is pretty damn huge in the states. It's aired all the time on tv.
And btw there's nothing wrong with Disney/Pixar. They have made some of the best animated films of all time. Just sayin. -
capvid19 — 13 years ago(January 07, 2013 04:31 AM)
I'm pretty sure it's almost entirely because they get very little marketing here when compared to films made in the West. If they did I'd imagine they'd gross much more in their cinema release.
That said, I'm pretty sure DVD sales are fairly high, they can hardly be called unsuccessful. -
xenopharb — 9 years ago(September 04, 2016 12:24 AM)
Disney does not market them well, and traditional animation is now more difficult to market anyway.
I have looked for every Ghibli film since Spirited Away at local theaters, and only two have come here (Arrietty and Ponyo). There is a theater 85 miles away that sometimes sneaks in Ghibli films, but even then only for a week. -
watcher101 — 9 years ago(January 27, 2017 08:40 PM)
Unfortunately, many western audiences dismiss anime in general as being kiddish (even though there are some that are very violent or explicit), and they won't even give it a chance. Those that do gain a true appreciation for how great anime is. Sadly, most westerners look down on these fans without even giving anime a chance. So anime fans tend to get a bad reputation, which only discourages people from even giving anime a try even more.