English dub vs. Original Japanese dub
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escamillio — 15 years ago(September 26, 2010 06:58 AM)
Nothing replaces the immediacy of understanding the spoken word. everything else is filtered through your subjective opinion of what you think he is expressing when you read the words. and on the whole I find this whole discussion rather absurd since this is a film aimed at children who neither speak Japanese or are able to read. WTF. since the dubbing industry is wholly owned by the film studios themselves it is part of the protectionist racket going on in the united states that cheats not the movie buffs who read stuff like this but the general public from enjoying movies filmed in anything other than English. and before you flamers out there get on your high horse about going native and go on the "I understand the intent of every language out there even though it sounds like gibberish to me" sermon: the original is only as good as it emotionally reaches the audience. If the original is soooo superior why don't you go watch most of the Clint Eastwood spaghetti westerns in the 6 to 8 languages the way they were filmed. sorry for the rant but as a speaker of many languages I find the arrogance of English only speakers who sit in judgment of how a Japanese text is spoken and inflected stunning. If you have no idea of the mentality of the language you are hearing you are fishing and guessing for meaning when you read it. I have worked in translation quite a bit and what you read on the bottom of the screen is by no means at all time true to what they are saying at the time. Once again this is a film aimed primarily at children not us who read and post stuff here.
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yanosakamoto — 15 years ago(December 05, 2010 11:39 PM)
Yes you are right , since the movie is for children I think it is pretty normal it is dubbed in other countries than Japan . If the job is well done , then it's OK, period . If you impose reading on small children , they won't like cinema .
And it seems that in Europe everybody can stand dubbing well , soi yes if you want a large audience to enouy a foreign movie, dub it , or else it will attract only people who are used to subtitles .
Can't sleep at night -
suz-mal — 15 years ago(December 01, 2010 05:41 AM)
Otherwise go sell your pretensiousness somewhere else. I'm not impressed.
Nobody gives a sht if you're not impressed you ignorant moron.
I agree with dubbing taking away a certain personality, whether it's ultimately for better or worse. The best example I can think of is the original Dragonball show (not overly a fan, but it's not too bad). The character of Goku is completely different in the English dub - not just his voice but his mannerisms. I grew up on that version, and most of the Jap animated films I've seen I first saw in English, so I'm not biased. They are almost always better in Japanese. Also, I'd rather listen to a Japanese voice than an American any day. The generic tv American accent is just godawful (although, now so many films feature New England accents, which are kinda rad). -
beebout — 15 years ago(November 25, 2010 08:38 AM)
I thoroughly agree. I avoid dubbed films as a rule, and while I recognize that excellent dubs may exist, and that lousy subs certainly exist, I still default to the original language wherever possible. Perhaps I occasionally miss high-quality dubs of films I enjoy I still sleep just fine at night.
I don't invite people over to see that I watch films with subtitles, I watch them like that even when no one is looking. It's not pretension, simply preference. After decades of watching subtitled films in many languages, I am perfectly comfortable reading and watching at the same time. I'm confident I don't lose the intent of the cinematography by having my eyes momentarily rest at the bottom of the screen, even if you all are not.
If you don't want to read the subtitles, enjoy the dubbed version all you wish. If you can't help but feel that you're missing something scrapping the original language track, come on over to my place and we can share in an impromptu oratory on the lesser works of Virgil, or critique lesser-known mid-century varietals or whatever pretentious thing we dream up. -
r_e_panzer — 15 years ago(September 06, 2010 02:46 PM)
I'm 100% certain that evryone would prefer the dubbing in thier own launguage, but in order to translate for the movie, they also have to make the translated word match the talking in the film to characters mouth's moving, and in order to do so, they have to change the words. The people doing the dub may not be the best translators, and when they change the words, they may change what the scene was trying to portray.
I believe that is the concern with dubbing, that the original movie in the original launguage, is the best version to watch, because they don't change the dialog to match what how the characters mouth is moving. Subtitlters just display what the character is saying, and they don't have to change it to how the mouths are moving. Even the slightest change in dialog can have a profound impact on the script, ecspecially if the person isn't that good at it. -
Spixe — 15 years ago(September 06, 2010 09:53 PM)
That being said, it brings me back to one of the points I made. Not that I disagree with you, but the issue of subtitle timing also has an impact on how something is translated. Guaili, this also can serve as a reply to you, because I don't think you got my "subtitle vs time" point.
Now, granted, some people can read much in a 1 second window. But sometimes, subtitles can be inaccurate because what the person says will be condensed into what can fit into one or two lines of subtitle. Whereas with dubbing, we are able to 'listen' to more than we can 'read' in the same amount of time. As I pointed out earlier, you can see an example of this in Ponyo. Watch it with Eng dubbing AND Eng subs, and you'll see they are slightly different, and end up 'saying' much more than you end up 'reading', as sometimes lines are left out and dialogue is condensed. This happens a lot on dub vs sub. So in theory, you end up getting more story, translation, content, whatever, in dub than you do in sub.
Like I said, not that I disagree or are arguing your point. I'm just saying it goes both ways. You illustrated a good example e_rep, matching dub to mouth movement is probably a big pain which requires quality dubbing companies and actors. Just gotta pray for quality I guess. -
piccolodiamou — 15 years ago(November 03, 2010 02:43 PM)
After reading this whole thread, I wanted to comment on a few points that have been brought up (so I'm replying to the OP instead of another reply.)
I think that Studio Ghibli's films have generally had okay dubs. Some are better than others. If you compare these films' dubs to your average, non-smash hit dubbed anime series, they're FAR superior.
However, they're not perfect. I've heard mixed reviews of the Princess Mononoke dub, for example. I call that one out because of the star-studded voice acting cast. Some people really love it. In my opinion, some of the VAs did solid work, but some were below par and distracting. (Gillian Anderson's wolf, for example.) Spirited Away wasn't bad, but I Chihiro's voice was grating. Kind of like Ponyo's. (We don't seem to have a talented pool of child/child-like voice actors in the U.S. like they do in Japan.) Jiji's dub in Kiki's Delivery Service completely changed the character.
So, that said, I was kind of disappointed with Ponyo's English dub. Several of you have praised Tina Fey's performance. I actually thought she did a very poor job. Her delivery was flat and her timing was off. Not very believable. And I am not the only one on this board who found Ponyo's voice annoying.
In regards to the general argument about subtitles vs. dubs:
Some people are pretentious about this. Maybe I am too. But I generally prefer subtitles with the original Japanese VAs. I sympathize with those who have dealt with subtitle timing issues, and having to read the subtitles is in fact more work than just listening to your native language. Sometimes this is distracting. But if you've devoured as many subtitled series and movies as I have, you will probably find that you quickly grow accustomed to reading as you watch and listen. Once that becomes second nature, you'll start picking up on the vocal cues from the Japanese VAs. Different language? Sure. But with repeated exposure to common phrases and the accompanying (animated) expressions, it's a rare occurrence for me to watch something subbed and end up with a "buh?" sort of feeling. (The exception being anime full of puns and obscure idioms. With those, a dub is your only prayer of comprehending anything that's going on.)
Sorry for the novel, but to wrap up, this is certainly all subjective, as someone said. No need to belittle anybody or get hostile. For all my love of subtitles, I still find some series (my "first loves" of anime, in particular) to be much more enjoyable in English. Three cheers for the English cast of Cowboy Bebop and FLCL! (And Trigun, even though Millie's voice is nooot goooood.) -
TheMonkofDestiny — 15 years ago(November 14, 2010 12:22 AM)
We don't seem to have a talented pool of child/child-like voice actors in the U.S. like they do in Japan.
or there are and it's just that Disney tends to go with those that can deliver the excess amount of saccharine they desire. Personally I didn't find Daveigh Chase's Chihiro performance irritating, but Noah Cyrus's Ponyo did push my limits initially but as I've rewatched it I've started to tolerate it with a bit more ease.
The exception being anime full of puns and obscure idioms. With those, a dub is your only prayer of comprehending anything that's going on.
Spirited Away, though not full of them, has a scene where even the people who converted the story and script mentioned that they found it nearly impossible to portray the full intent of the scene as it originally was without making it sail over most of a foreign audience's understanding, so I'd agree with this. -
FollicleMan — 15 years ago(November 27, 2010 09:07 AM)
My question is, what's with the casting of younger siblings of teen pop stars? A Cyrus sister AND a Jonas brother? WHAT? They did a pretty good job though, I kind of liked how absurdly earnest and overexcited Ponyo sounded.
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Jnbfwc — 15 years ago(December 12, 2010 09:52 PM)
According to what I've heard, the final script isn't written until AFTER THE ANIMATION, thus, is is "dubbed" whether in Japanese or English, and the words had to be made to match the mouth, either way.
Also, wasn't the creator's original intention to work with Disney? Thus, the "intent" was to have it in English AND Japanese.
Thus, your statement is untrue. -
bart-229 — 11 years ago(May 22, 2014 06:01 AM)
There's really no "original" dubdubbing generally refers to a substitute for the original audio. With animated features there's no original audio in that senseit is always dubbed in the first place. It's not the same as dubbing non-animated movies, where there's an original (or "non-dubbed") version. And fetishizing original intent is just to commit the intentional fallacy.
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velcronewsletter — 11 years ago(November 19, 2014 10:31 AM)
not everyone will get on with the original. it's all down to personal preference and many people are more comfortable with the english version, the words are more familiar to them and that's understandable